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UNIVERSITY NEWS Athletics Budget

MidTennMtneer

All American
Nov 13, 2013
2,948
3,096
113
Tony has some questionable graphics at times, but this one actually seems about right. Surprised when we mention often here how much of our budget is tied to student fees, that we aren't the highest in CUSA.

Athletic Budgets
LU 57m
FIU 41m
MT 35m
WKU 35m
UTEP 33m
KSU 32m
NMSU 30m
LaT 28m
SHSU 21m
Jax 20m

 
Our budget would be higher if it weren't for McPhee's purposeful, intentional efforts at ensuring a decline in student enrollment...
 
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I imagine with the way Liberty keeps winning consistently in football makes the activity fee an acceptable trade off to their students.
Meanwhile…..MT Men’s Basketball is dead assed last in a weak one-bid conference.
 
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I think it’s ridiculous.

College isn’t cheap anymore. No reason for this much subsidies from students.

If I were a student, interested in campus politics, I would run a ticket that drastically reduces the financial burden.

The amount of waste and stupid decisions seen over the past 10 years have made me think this way.
 
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Honestly most students probably don't even know what they are paying. Yes college has gotten outrageous, but the loan companies made it so the amounts wouldn't matter. It's a combo of students not researching, loan companies not being forthcoming, and the job market changing.

But I did do some of my own checking, and for 22-23 school year the athletic fees are listed on our website at $240 ($480 per year). Now, there is another $408 per year for debt service to pay the bonds which does include some athletic facilities.

Knight Commission (which Tony cites) lists our student fees at $8.96m for '22 with enrollment at 18,603. That's $481 per student, right in line with the listed fees.

So I'm now not sure where that $1569 is coming from in Tony's graphic. Looking at WKU for example, based on the same info they are at $419, but his graph has them at $1984. Their website lists the athletic fees at $436 per year. 18% of their athletic budget is student fees.

According to the Knight, which is what the government goes by, the fees are 25% of our athletic budget. For reference WVU is 11% and UT is 12%.
App St is 15% with a budget of only $38m.
 
This could be totally wrong, but from what I've read via Google is the following.
MT requirements: 3.5 GPA
TSU, APSU, UTC requirements: 2.5 GPA
MT has approximately a 73% acceptance rate.
The other 3 schools approximately an 83%-93% acceptance rate.

This was from a quick browse. If anyone has more factual information please update.
If this is relatively correct info, & if set by the president it would be more difficult to enroll at MT than some of the other local state universities.
 
Yikes. a 2.5 GPA minimum. That's getting quite low for those schools.
 
I remember taking the ACT in '79 as a senior with the flu at the time. I left early & turned in the test a little over half finished. Knowing I failed terribly I was stunned when MT accepted me with a 16 ACT.
Never even re-tested & registered for school. Loved MT ever since.
 
Refer to Darrell Freemans questioning the enrollment decline around a year before his death. McPhee's lack of interest in engaging a discussion with Freeman and apparently okay with the decline. I'm not sure any real benefit has been accrued with any adjustments in entrance requirements. You would think if there were, there would be a mad rush to apply and enrollment would naturally increase. Is an MT degree viewed as any more valuable as a result of McPhee's policy?
 
So a couple of things that MAY be explain the WHY :

1) Higher ed funding change is no longer based on headcount, but on performance
2) If performance is key, then it makes sense for MT to target / recruit students with higher GPA / test scores, than lower GPA / test scores (higher probability of success / matriculation)

** If any of you have a better understanding of the change in funding, let me know**

That said, overall student enrollment is affected by a variety of factors, including :

1) Quality of life (on and off campus)
2) Athletics
3) Degree programs
4) And many others...
 
Refer to Darrell Freemans questioning the enrollment decline around a year before his death. McPhee's lack of interest in engaging a discussion with Freeman and apparently okay with the decline. I'm not sure any real benefit has been accrued with any adjustments in entrance requirements. You would think if there were, there would be a mad rush to apply and enrollment would naturally increase. Is an MT degree viewed as any more valuable as a result of McPhee's policy?
I would encourage you to read some THEC policy on the outcomes based funding formula.
 
I guess the answer is no.
I’m not arguing that McPhee is good; he should have been gone a long time ago. However, you aren’t stating specifically what those intentional efforts to “sabotage” the school are. What exact policies and practices are you against? Don’t be scared to list them. Otherwise, you are just making claims and talking out of your ass like you’ve been doing since the Delphi board.
 
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I don't know all the details but I believe a large part of the enrollment decline is a result of the Tennessee Promise program. Graduating Tennessee high school students can possibly get 5 semesters paid to attend a community or technical college. Hence, kids are heading to schools like Motlow in our area, thus effecting our enrollment numbers.
 
I don't know all the details but I believe a large part of the enrollment decline is a result of the Tennessee Promise program. Graduating Tennessee high school students can possibly get 5 semesters paid to attend a community or technical college. Hence, kids are heading to schools like Motlow in our area, thus effecting our enrollment numbers.
Motlow was 6900 in 2019 and is a little over 6600 in 2023. Before the TN Promise in 2013 they were around 4900. I think it’s stabilized itself now and should not affect enrollment anymore. I think this is a quality over quantity type of thing.
 
I don't know all the details but I believe a large part of the enrollment decline is a result of the Tennessee Promise program. Graduating Tennessee high school students can possibly get 5 semesters paid to attend a community or technical college. Hence, kids are heading to schools like Motlow in our area, thus effecting our enrollment numbers.
When the State approved the 2 years free, several 4 year state universities began a 2-year degree... McPhee refused to follow suit... I have been told by individuals on campus, in the know, because they were part of the discussion...
 
There are a multitude of factors but part of it is degree/program offerings, or really lack there of. We have very few Masters programs, zero Undergraduate or Graduate Certificates, only two Doctorates, and online offerings are severely lacking. I've been researching for the last year and they simply don't offer enough. As stated, Associates would help as well. We have filled a lot of niche programs like Furmentation Science but need more. Concrete Management is great and is an amazing opportunity to start an Engineering school.
 
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There are a multitude of factors but part of it is degree/program offerings, or really lack there of. We have very few Masters programs, zero Undergraduate or Graduate Certificates, only two Doctorates, and online offerings are severely lacking. I've been researching for the last year and they simply don't offer enough. As stated, Associates would help as well. We have filled a lot of niche programs like Furmentation Science but need more. Concrete Management is great and is an amazing opportunity to start an Engineering school.
I’m assuming you’re lumping all of the education and philosophy in one. We actually have 15 doctoral degrees. Masters we have 92 degrees. Online has grown a lot lately. I think our biggest issue is we do not have the high paying job degrees like engineering, law, med school, veterinary, among others. We really need one of those to boost our perception.
 
A good friend of mine is an automotive teacher with TCAT here in Middle Tennessee. They have great certifications for real world use. Many of those jobs have excellent pay & job placement. By the way, TCAT is state sponsored so no cost to the student. They're having record enrollments at this time.
If something like this had been around when I was a kid fresh out of high school I may have gone for it. Then again when I enrolled at MT in 1980 it was only $350 a semester, & $150 would get a semester's worth of books. Good days.
Only negative was I couldn't find a parking spot in 1980 either.
 
I’m assuming you’re lumping all of the education and philosophy in one. We actually have 15 doctoral degrees. Masters we have 92 degrees. Online has grown a lot lately. I think our biggest issue is we do not have the high paying job degrees like engineering, law, med school, veterinary, among others. We really need one of those to boost our perception.
I admittedly did a quick Google search and yes, they were lumped together. So valid point on the Doctorates. And online at MT has grown in the year I've been researching my program, but is still behind. We now have over 30 Masters online, which is great, but still. For people like me, online certificate is where its at as there is really no difference in that or Masters at this point in my career. So no MT for my continuing education.

And high paying professional degrees 100%. We have the program with Meharry. That should be in-house in an agreement with St. Thomas. The hospital should essentially have a giant MT sign on it. And don't even get me started on a law school. That is what soured me on McP more than anything. Total lack of clout and drop of the ball.

But I digress. There is more to it than "hey let's have a degree in this". But we all want to see the school grow. Sadly politics play a large part, as do athletics, especially football. Hopefully CDM is the man to help that which will help grow the enrollment.
 
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A good friend of mine is an automotive teacher with TCAT here in Middle Tennessee. They have great certifications for real world use. Many of those jobs have excellent pay & job placement. By the way, TCAT is state sponsored so no cost to the student. They're having record enrollments at this time.
If something like this had been around when I was a kid fresh out of high school I may have gone for it. Then again when I enrolled at MT in 1980 it was only $350 a semester, & $150 would get a semester's worth of books. Good days.
Only negative was I couldn't find a parking spot in 1980 either.
While TCATs are covered under Promise, Reconnect, Wilder Nafeih, and other grants and FA, in most cases there are still costs to the students, primarily for tools and equipment. Depending on eligibility, some may be covered by financial aid or FA refunds, but students still incur those costs, as tools and equipment isn’t generally covered by FA, depending on program and a”school.

But TCATs are a great option for some students.
 
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And, in some cases (as we learned with the law school), they have to be approved by the competition (other schools in the region).

Dumbest thing I've ever seen. Almost as dumb as people/corporations being able to donate unlimited amounts of money to a politician.....

It ensures those in power will stay in power, permanently. And nobody will do a damn thing about it.
 
No other state that I can tell (at least the ones I’ve lived in or researched) operates like this state. Maybe a case for Alabama. THEC absolutely could care less about this Univ. This state only cares about UT and some about Memphis because state leadership is stockpiled with corrupt Memphis politicals. Most other states actually do work to see their other state schools flourish. Not this one.
 
No other state that I can tell (at least the ones I’ve lived in or researched) operates like this state. Maybe a case for Alabama. THEC absolutely could care less about this Univ. This state only cares about UT and some about Memphis because state leadership is stockpiled with corrupt Memphis politicals. Most other states actually do work to see their other state schools flourish. Not this one.
This is completely untrue about THEC not caring about MTSU. MTSU doesn’t have political sway, at all, but that has nothing to do with how THEC treats or operates regarding MTSU on a daily basis.
 
This is a quote from Pres S. McPhee 10-16-2018. "Very disappointed" in THEC's decision to deny the law school's transfer, "I think THEC based their decision on politics rather than our proposal."
It appears you're strongly favoring the THEC over what Dr McPhee was quoted. If politics didn't play a role in the law school denial to a public school then please tell us what did? You just said politics has nothing to do with how THEC treats or operates regarding MTSU. If that's so logic dictates you & the THEC are thusly saying any student wanting a law degree in Middle Tennessee should only get it from a private university because public schools can't effectively teach law? As a spokesperson for THEC is this what you're saying in this instance?
 
This is a quote from Pres S. McPhee 10-16-2018. "Very disappointed" in THEC's decision to deny the law school's transfer, "I think THEC based their decision on politics rather than our proposal."
It appears you're strongly favoring the THEC over what Dr McPhee was quoted. If politics didn't play a role in the law school denial to a public school then please tell us what did? You just said politics has nothing to do with how THEC treats or operates regarding MTSU. If that's so logic dictates you & the THEC are thusly saying any student wanting a law degree in Middle Tennessee should only get it from a private university because public schools can't effectively teach law? As a spokesperson for THEC is this what you're saying in this instance?
As a follow up, don't get me wrong. Many on this platform here are not fans by any right to the university president. However, almost to the person I assure you they would agree & support his quote.
 
This is completely untrue about THEC not caring about MTSU. MTSU doesn’t have political sway, at all, but that has nothing to do with how THEC treats or operates regarding MTSU on a daily basis.
Give me one example of how THEC has prioritized MT. They hid behind Geier for 40 years and are still coming up with new ways to undermine us after it ended. Defending THEC is indefensible.
 
This is a quote from Pres S. McPhee 10-16-2018. "Very disappointed" in THEC's decision to deny the law school's transfer, "I think THEC based their decision on politics rather than our proposal."
It appears you're strongly favoring the THEC over what Dr McPhee was quoted. If politics didn't play a role in the law school denial to a public school then please tell us what did? You just said politics has nothing to do with how THEC treats or operates regarding MTSU. If that's so logic dictates you & the THEC are thusly saying any student wanting a law degree in Middle Tennessee should only get it from a private university because public schools can't effectively teach law? As a spokesperson for THEC is this what you're saying in this instance?
Exactly! Zero public law schools in middle Tennessee (the largest populated region by far) and we're supposed to believe there was no need for it? A UT student on the committee, of course, voted" no" against us. What kind of legitimate organization has students voting on serious matters like this? It's 100% political.
 
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Exactly! Zero public law schools in middle Tennessee (the largest populated region by far) and we're supposed to believe their was no need for it? A UT student on the committee, of course, voted no against us. What kind of legitimate organization has students voting on serious matters like this? It's 100% political.

Like I said, no other state I know of treats higher education like this. It really is egregious.
 
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Give me one example of how THEC has prioritized MT. They hid behind Geier for 40 years and are still coming up with new ways to undermine us after it ended. Defending THEC is indefensible.
It is not the job of THEC to prioritize MT.

I think you people are confused; there is a commission made up of political appointees, including the Secretary of State, comptroller, treasurer, and other government appointees, and one student member. Do you know who the chair of the commission was during this time? His name is on the building where McPhee’s office is.

Then there is the state agency, THEC, that works with the institutions closely.

The commission denied the law school, mostly because McPhee didn’t take it seriously and gave an all time bad performance in his presentation to the commission. McPhee also never attends commission meetings, when every other president is routinely in attendance.

Your beef is with the political appointees of the commission, not THEC the state agency.
 
This is a quote from Pres S. McPhee 10-16-2018. "Very disappointed" in THEC's decision to deny the law school's transfer, "I think THEC based their decision on politics rather than our proposal."
It appears you're strongly favoring the THEC over what Dr McPhee was quoted. If politics didn't play a role in the law school denial to a public school then please tell us what did? You just said politics has nothing to do with how THEC treats or operates regarding MTSU. If that's so logic dictates you & the THEC are thusly saying any student wanting a law degree in Middle Tennessee should only get it from a private university because public schools can't effectively teach law? As a spokesperson for THEC is this what you're saying in this instance?
See my response to the other guy.
 
Exactly! Zero public law schools in middle Tennessee (the largest populated region by far) and we're supposed to believe there was no need for it? A UT student on the committee, of course, voted" no" against us. What kind of legitimate organization has students voting on serious matters like this? It's 100% political.
Yes, a student voice should absolutely be heard in these matters. There is a student rep on almost every higher ed board. The student was not the deciding vote. And MT could just as easily have that rep on the board. There was a community college student in the last couple of years.
 
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