Culture: Where Middle Failed For Far Too Long

[VicVegas89101]

Many of you have spoke to this, but it truly deserves its own thread. Our Middle Tennessee State University Blue Raiders are the direct result of a failed culture.

It started all the way back in 1999 when the idea of MTSU going D1 was going to be enough to spark additional interest in the program. There is nothing no doubt Boots Donnelly did great things for the D1-AA Raiders, but we had not won a conference title since 1992.

It had been 7 years and Middle was trending downward. We took a shot on Coach Mac and in 2001 we looked like geniuses, co-champs with the future looking even better. We were making NATIONAL NEWS with a Heisman Candidate in Dwone Hicks (Hicks 4 Heisman).

Despite the success the city was never behind MT. Then comes the great crash of 2002. Staring the season 0-5 with a loss to Southeast Missouri State. By the end of the season the stands were EMPTY.

Fast forward to 2006 and we're co-champs again, having lost to Troy at home. We go bowling and get crushed, entirely outclassed by the MAC. That's alright though, as our future is once again bright.

2007: Start the season off 0-4 and blow a chance at a statement win v. UVA., End the year 5-7, needing to only beat ULL in Murfreesboro to contend for a bowl game.

2008: Start season 1-4, with the lone win being v. UMD... Still find a way to go 5-7

2009: 10-3, but per usual, co-champions, having lost to Troy. We get our chance to shine at home v. Mississippi State but get bowled over. We're back on the path though, 10-3! Bowl Game Win, and our team is coming back for a great campaign in 2010.

2010: 6-7 with a loss to Miami (OH) in the GoDaddy.Com bowl. Attendance drops to 10K. All momentum form 2009 is lost, and we look like a team who just go lucky.

2011: 2-10. 2009 is proven to be a fluke.

2012: 8-4: but third place in the Sun Belt. Did i mention that we lost to McNese State to start this season? Did I also mention that we beat Georgia Tech and Memphis on the road in back-to-back games. A true Jekyll and Hyde season.

2013: First season in CUSA and were 8-4. We get crushed by Navy in a bowl game, still 8-5 is a great sign for the future

2014: 6-6. We are now losing to Memphis and UTEP.

2015: 7-6 with a loss in the Bahama Bowl. So much for momentum.

2016: 8-5 including a bowl out loss in the Hawaii Bowl. We're no longer competing with Vanderbilt.

2017: 7-6 with a stinker v. Vandy @ home but a win over Syracuse on the road. But hey! we won a bowl game v. Arkansas State!!!

2018: Ok senior year for Brent, Big things are happening.... We won the CUSA east title, and are playing at home v. UAB, who we just beat a week prior. NOPE! We blow that. We got the NOLA bowl though, time to make an impact.... NOPE! we get blown away. 8-6.

What the fans, players, and administration have seen is the same story year to year. We have no ability to play at a level of consistency that invites players or fans to invest in the program. MTSU will have its moment in the sun to be followed up with a total garbage performance.

What this program lacks is pride. An attitude that says we are not going to 'compete' but we are going to 'win' Fans are tired of being right about little Middle when it comes to their money. Why spend money to be disappointed anymore?

A culture of winning has never been established at Middle. What we have established is a culture of "MEH" and MEH doesn't bring out fans, and it doesn't excite recruits to come here and play. Every year we have a chance to build something, we drop down to MEH-dle Tennessee State University.

How do we fix this? I'd say we start with a coach whose fired up to fight the big guys, not one who simply wants to compete. Maybe we get kids who are here to play football and not simply graduate with their coaching football degree. Its been a decade and nobody has seen a fired up Rick Stockstill, maybe it is time for a change now that Brent is gone.

Whatever is the answer, it starts with one thing: CULTURE. A winning culture needs to be established here... One that wins the games it should and continually reaches for something better than conference co-champs.

Look at franchises like the NY Yankees, St. Louis Cardinals, Pittsburgh Steelers, New England Patriots, these guys win consistently because its expected. And simply 'competing' is beneath them.

 

[BRaiderDave]

Many of you have spoke to this, but it truly deserves its own thread. Our Middle Tennessee State University Blue Raiders are the direct result of a failed culture.

It started all the way back in 1999 when the idea of MTSU going D1 was going to be enough to spark additional interest in the program. There is nothing no doubt Boots Donnelly did great things for the D1-AA Raiders, but we had not won a conference title since 1992.

It had been 7 years and Middle was trending downward. We took a shot on Coach Mac and in 2001 we looked like geniuses, co-champs with the future looking even better. We were making NATIONAL NEWS with a Heisman Candidate in Dwone Hicks (Hicks 4 Heisman).

Despite the success the city was never behind MT. Then comes the great crash of 2002. Staring the season 0-5 with a loss to Southeast Missouri State. By the end of the season the stands were EMPTY.

Fast forward to 2006 and we're co-champs again, having lost to Troy at home. We go bowling and get crushed, entirely outclassed by the MAC. That's alright though, as our future is once again bright.

2007: Start the season off 0-4 and blow a chance at a statement win v. UVA., End the year 5-7, needing to only beat ULL in Murfreesboro to contend for a bowl game.

2008: Start season 1-4, with the lone win being v. UMD... Still find a way to go 5-7

2009: 10-3, but per usual, co-champions, having lost to Troy. We get our chance to shine at home v. Mississippi State but get bowled over. We're back on the path though, 10-3! Bowl Game Win, and our team is coming back for a great campaign in 2010.

2010: 6-7 with a loss to Miami (OH) in the GoDaddy.Com bowl. Attendance drops to 10K. All momentum form 2009 is lost, and we look like a team who just go lucky.

2011: 2-10. 2009 is proven to be a fluke.

2012: 8-4: but third place in the Sun Belt. Did i mention that we lost to McNese State to start this season? Did I also mention that we beat Georgia Tech and Memphis on the road in back-to-back games. A true Jekyll and Hyde season.

2013: First season in CUSA and were 8-4. We get crushed by Navy in a bowl game, still 8-5 is a great sign for the future

2014: 6-6. We are now losing to Memphis and UTEP.

2015: 7-6 with a loss in the Bahama Bowl. So much for momentum.

2016: 8-5 including a bowl out loss in the Hawaii Bowl. We're no longer competing with Vanderbilt.

2017: 7-6 with a stinker v. Vandy @ home but a win over Syracuse on the road. But hey! we won a bowl game v. Arkansas State!!!

2018: Ok senior year for Brent, Big things are happening.... We won the CUSA east title, and are playing at home v. UAB, who we just beat a week prior. NOPE! We blow that. We got the NOLA bowl though, time to make an impact.... NOPE! we get blown away. 8-6.

What the fans, players, and administration have seen is the same story year to year. We have no ability to play at a level of consistency that invites players or fans to invest in the program. MTSU will have its moment in the sun to be followed up with a total garbage performance.

What this program lacks is pride. An attitude that says we are not going to 'compete' but we are going to 'win' Fans are tired of being right about little Middle when it comes to their money. Why spend money to be disappointed anymore?

A culture of winning has never been established at Middle. What we have established is a culture of "MEH" and MEH doesn't bring out fans, and it doesn't excite recruits to come here and play. Every year we have a chance to build something, we drop down to MEH-dle Tennessee State University.

How do we fix this? I'd say we start with a coach whose fired up to fight the big guys, not one who simply wants to compete. Maybe we get kids who are here to play football and not simply graduate with their coaching football degree. Its been a decade and nobody has seen a fired up Rick Stockstill, maybe it is time for a change now that Brent is gone.

Whatever is the answer, it starts with one thing: CULTURE. A winning culture needs to be established here... One that wins the games it should and continually reaches for something better than conference co-champs.

Look at franchises like the NY Yankees, St. Louis Cardinals, Pittsburgh Steelers, New England Patriots, these guys win consistently because its expected. And simply 'competing' is beneath them.

The only thing I would add is that the culture is not set with the head coach. It goes all the way up to President, Athletics Director, and even with the Board of Trustees. Until the entire structure is cleansed we're just wasting everyone's time and money.

 

[RaiderDawg78]

The question is - what are we prepared to do?

Nothing is going to change by venting here or a few emails/talks with M & M.

We have 2 options, continue as is or we start a coordinated, grassroots move by alumni and students to force change. It would be useful to have big money donors, but it’s going to take an organized effort on and offline that includes more involvement to get the change we want. I honestly don’t know if enough people would be willing to do the work it might take to create real movement. Or has such apathy set in that this is just the state of MT we accept.

We need a spark to get of if the stagnant state of MT athletics.

I contacted the local alumni association group about getting involved and find out it’s not actually organized, the person trying to run it doesn’t live in state anymore & then radio silence.

So I ask myself and others, what are we really willing to do to get change?

 

[MidTennMtneer]

Kudos on all the above. I too am at a loss on how to get the movement going. I bleed Blue. Go to at least one game every year be it home or away. But I live over 6 hours away. Not easy to do sometimes.

I give to the school when I can. It’s hard for me not to. The players deserve me coming to games when I can even if the coaches do not.

Last few times I’ve given I’ve specified where it goes. Not to athletics. But that doesn’t matter when CM and McPhee will just raise the student fee as part of tuition.

Like I said in another thread. I want a coach and AD that will be a salesman not just to recruits but to the general public and alumni as well.

 

[Sommy]

I agree. We need to convert all the banter back and forth on here to real action. What is that and what needs to happen. That's what we need to discuss. Actual action.

I think it starts with getting the attention of Massaro. Like others said - he sets the culture.

 

[sWiley]

Only 2 things that we can do as fans to impact change.

Give money or withhold it.

Attend games or stay home.

Vote accordingly with your dollars and time until changes are made.

I've heard rumblings that David Blackburn wants to be our next AD, and that a few big money boosters want him to be our next AD too. He's a young, energetic dude who many think could possibly change things within the athletic department.

The problem? Massaro won't leave, and I hear there's 1 big name donor who wants to keep him in power and he won't budge. What an idiot that guy is, whoever you are. I hope you read this, and I hope you know you are single handedly ruining this university's athletics programs. Get the F out of the way and support Blackburn, please. Something has to change around here before there's literally not a soul in the stands. Is that what you want?

Nothing we can do about McPhee. He is a thought-less bum who has to stay in power so a big state university has a minority president (Sorry, but this has to be said. It's simply the cold hearted truth.) At this point, we can only work around him. He is a pawn anyway in the grand scheme of things. We just need the right money people pulling the strings and making better decisions. Our big name donors have failed us with their continued support of this administration.

ALL funding must be stopped until Massaro is gone. Period. No BRAA. No donations. No tickets purchased. NOTHING. Make them pull every red cent from student fee's and from within.

I pledge to become a lower level BRAA donor once Massaro is fired. Until then, I will continue to give nothing.

 

[RaiderDawg78]

Only 2 things that we can do as fans to impact change.

Give money or withhold it.

Attend games or stay home.

Vote accordingly with your dollars and time until changes are made.

I've heard rumblings that David Blackburn wants to be our next AD, and that a few big money boosters want him to be our next AD too. He's a young, energetic dude who many think could possibly change things within the athletic department.

The problem? Massaro won't leave, and I hear there's 1 big name donor who wants to keep him in power and he won't budge. What an idiot that guy is, whoever you are. I hope you read this, and I hope you know you are single handedly ruining this university's athletics programs. Get the F out of the way and support Blackburn, please. Something has to change around here before there's literally not a soul in the stands. Is that what you want?

Nothing we can do about McPhee. He is a thought-less bum who has to stay in power so a big state university has a minority president (Sorry, but this has to be said. It's simply the cold hearted truth.) At this point, we can only work around him. He is a pawn anyway in the grand scheme of things. We just need the right money people pulling the strings and making better decisions. Our big name donors have failed us with their continued support of this administration.

ALL funding must be stopped until Massaro is gone. Period. No BRAA. No donations. No tickets purchased. NOTHING.

I pledge to become a lower level BRAA donor once Massaro is fired. Until then, I will continue to give nothing.

I don’t think that will do it. They just subsidize the money with student fees and obviously attendance doesn’t force leadership’s hand.

I was thinking of some sort of petition or involvement of any bigger money donors some of us might know.

Something other than individuals just withholding money and making the BRAA pledge. I think it has to be organized and structured.

 

[MT01]

To give the guy a break, CM did - in fact - try to do a lot to change the culture when he got to MT. But like Washington, the culture was too much and he was overcome by the little middle mentality. Blackburn may be the guy to change it. Maybe. If he doesn't get too comfy with Boro life.

A lot - and I mean a lot - of UT alumni including many in the upper echelon of UT boosters who reside on the anti-Haslam side of the house wanted Blackburn as the AD there. A good number thought it was an foregone conclusion but then Blackburn had some personal troubles that derailed that and Haslem moved to appoint a puppet. His hiring was certainly interesting. Whether he is here to be the AD or not it is my hope he uses his skillset to improve our financial situation.

 

[RaiderDawg78]

To give the guy a break, CM did - in fact - try to do a lot to change the culture when he got to MT.

I think CM is probably a good guy. However, he has been here too long and the program is stale. We can’t hold on to his first few years as a reason to keep the program where it is now. Times change.

I sort of agree with Steve Spurrier, no one should stay in the exact same position for more than 10 years accept in very rare circumstances. This is not such a circumstance IMO.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

There are Board of Trustee members who will not make the needed changes because of their personal relationships with Stock, Massaro and McPhee.

I’m no “major” donor and never have been. Like BRDave, My only recourse is to continue to stay away and not spend a dime over there until changes are made or the event we are participating in has personal value to me (i.e. Syracuse NCAA game in St. Louis, Belmont BB game). I’m done with spending money on BRAA and Blue Raider Football. Have been since 2015.

 

[RaiderDawg78]

There are Board of Trustee members who will not make the needed changes because of their personal relationships with Stock, Massaro and McPhee.

I’m no “major” donor and never have been. Like BRDave, My only recourse is to continue to stay away and not spend a dime over there until changes are made or the event we are participating in has personal value to me (i.e. Syracuse NCAA game in St. Louis, Belmont BB game). I’m done with spending money on BRAA and Blue Raider Football. Have been since 2015.

Is there any leaverage or potential big donor that we know feels the same way as so many on this board feels?

Franklin or Raider can’t move these people, but a real petition or financial pressure from someone might could move things.

If we had a petition of a significant number of the MT family and the board failed to move on that, then there is always public shaming for not listening to alumni.

 

[Sommy]

All good plans. But I still feel like there needs to be a message sent. If attendance goes down and donations go down, that's a start, but I feel like the powers that be will just explain it away somehow and not address the real issues. There needs to be an actual message sent as to why these things are happening.

Petition is an interesting idea, just to get some attention at least.
Is Massaro active on Twitter, where we can blow him up?
Anyone in the media worth rattling their cage a bit to get them to go get a story?
Radio call-in shows?
How about we divert our MT donations to renting a billboard that shows the W-L records for some of the teams Massaro has overseen. With a nice firm message that it's time for some new True Blue Blood.

 

[RaiderDawg78]

All good plans. But I still feel like there needs to be a message sent. If attendance goes down and donations go down, that's a start, but I feel like the powers that be will just explain it away somehow and not address the real issues. There needs to be an actual message sent as to why these things are happening.

Petition is an interesting idea, just to get some attention at least.
Is Massaro active on Twitter, where we can blow him up?
Anyone in the media worth rattling their cage a bit to get them to go get a story?
Radio call-in shows?
How about we divert our MT donations to renting a billboard that shows the W-L records for some of the teams Massaro has overseen. With a nice firm message that it's time for some new True Blue Blood.

That’s what I am thinking.

A list of alumni who say I am x and I will not dontate again until x change is made. It would need be specific and have enough names and pledges to matter. It would also need to say that donations are being withheld until what: Massaro is no longer the AD? We have to have specific request.

We are essentially talking about a public grievance of the program. M&M May ignore a fee of us as message board slappies, but a organized effort with significant numbers might force their hand.

 

[Sommy]

Makes sense. A list of donors pulling their donations and the amounts, total that up and that's the lost amount for donations. Additionally they will no longer attend these events so we can tally up attendance impacts as well.

Accompany all of this with a nice professional list of concerns and what we would like to see done.

This is the type of thing that if it were done correctly, this package of information could also be sent to media outlets to see if anyone picks it up and gets more exposure. I like the traction this could potentially get going.

 

[MTOleBlue]

We are no longer going to be season ticket holders. That’s a start. Massaro needs to be fired/retired and replaced with Blackburn.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

Is there any leaverage or potential big donor that we know feels the same way as so many on this board feels?

Franklin or Raider can’t move these people, but a real petition or financial pressure from someone might could move things.

If we had a petition of a significant number of the MT family and the board failed to move on that, then there is always public shaming for not listening to alumni.

If the empty seats for the CUSA Championship game on national TV doesn’t shame them, what makes you think a few bad news articles will? There is a major player who has Stock, Massaro and McPhee’s backs. He ain’t gonna budge until they can no longer cover the shortfalls with student activity fees. Several of you know who I’m talking about.

Until that happens, you do like Wiley says. Vote with your wallet and your feet.

 

[Sommy]

If the empty seats for the CUSA Championship game on national TV doesn’t shame them, what makes you think a few bad news articles will? There is a major player who has Stock, Massaro and McPhee’s backs. He ain’t gonna budge until they can no longer cover the shortfalls with student activity fees. Several of you know who I’m talking about.

Until that happens, you do like Wiley says. Vote with your wallet and your feet.

Why is everything so hush-hush about this perceived donor that's holding everything back? Seems like we would want to put that name out there. Not necessarily to shame the person, but I don't understand the secrecy and protection.

Someone throw it out there, it's not like it's a criminal offense.

 

[RaiderDawg78]

If the empty seats for the CUSA Championship game on national TV doesn’t shame them, what makes you think a few bad news articles will? There is a major player who has Stock, Massaro and McPhee’s backs. He ain’t gonna budge until they can no longer cover the shortfalls with student activity fees. Several of you know who I’m talking about.

Until that happens, you do like Wiley says. Vote with your wallet and your feet.

I agree that they will explain away the attendance though.

I like using your wallet, but I think it is needs to be coordinated as much as possible. It can’t just be people stopping.

 

[MTTim]

I know my four are not giving a dime until things change. I heard a few leaving the game say the same.
I'm like FR, if empty seats at the championship game wasn't enough I don't know what will be.

 

[RaiderDawg78]

Why is everything so hush-hush about this perceived donor that's holding everything back? Seems like we would want to put that name out there. Not necessarily to shame the person, but I don't understand the secrecy and protection.

Someone throw it out there, it's not like it's a criminal offense.

I agree. Every one knows bobby Lowder at Auburn and T Boone Pickens at Ok State.

1, glad to know we have a cigar boy.

2. Would love to know who it was

 

[JohnDavidBlue]

I think I'm a big donor with the $5 pretzels, drinks, dogs, and nachos I buy for my family of 6.

 

[sWiley]

I would give you his name but I don't know it. I was just told that there's 1 guy holding up the entire Massaro firing / Blackburn replacement deal. Several smaller boosters are ready to move on it and have been ready to move on it for some time now, but there's 1 guy who won't budge and he is supposedly a very key cog in the wheel.

 

[MarJac23]

Is Massaro active on Twitter, where we can blow him up?
Anyone in the media worth rattling their cage a bit to get them to go get a story?
Radio call-in shows?

Was thinking about this earlier today so this may be my spot.
Who in the Media has the C.O. Jones or desire to start the ball rolling or rattle some cages?Most of the folk I hear out there seem to be all warm and fuzzy with CM and may not be willing to get it whacked.
Who wants to ask the hard questions? Who wants to go against the grain? Ain't like we have tons of fans or Alums to piss off. Even the non MT followers in the area might be interested and we may win a couple over.
Tim Tackett/Jeff Jordan on WGNS? Prob not. They have danced around the issue for years
Greg Pogue/ Big Joe ? Pogue has some clout and Big Joe is an Alum
Monte Hale? True Blue and has some cred
Johnny Ballpark ? Who needs to be our media guy BTW
Hutton?
Rexrode?
Heck, what about Adam Sparks. We all know how much crap Vandy takes from the Nashvile media
I know I'm missing someone but these Cats know MT and talk MT. Everyday. Surely one of these are as tired as we are
Who Wants It????

Where is Slappy Fes when you need him?

 

[FranklinRaider315]

As long as they, the “professional” development/fundraising experts are allowed to hit the student activity funds teet, they will NEVER cultivate a significant donor base. I’ve heard a fee balance number as high as $40 million. All they are good for is tweeting pics of their trips to bowls and conference meetings. There are folks with money, BIG money who have never even been contacted by the BRAA. I’ve resigned myself to the fact that they will not be held accountable if a 2/3 empty stadium for the CUSA Title Game doesn’t spark concern from McPhee or the Board of Trustees. For comparison, it only took one game vs. ECU in front of barely over 4,000 Memphis fans on ESPN to get Tommy West fired and his AD, RC Johnson put out to pasture.

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

Any of us could make waves...or at least try. Posting on here is easier, no risk and you don't have to leave your house.

Instead of suggest something, do something.

 

[dukewayne]

Absolutely RaiderDawg78

Goal oriented, organized actions in person will make a big impact. It's easy to write off a message board as a bunch of complainers and malcontents.

For the university as a whole, I've brought up the case for organizing in person political type action. The new board of regents or directors or whatever they call the new setup is the place to get things started. Admittedly, I myself have failed to get over to the public meetings. A bunch of people start showing up who are speaking up and addressing concerns will make an impact. That is the nature of social pressure. Some may not want changes and improvements in the athletic dept, but a bunch of people regularly voicing their concerns and need for change will get most people to at least entertain other ideas or directions. Some will change their tune pretty darn fast.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

Any of us could make waves...or at least try. Posting on here is easier, no risk and you don't have to leave your house.

Instead of suggest something, do something.

If someone reaches out to me about why I quit giving and buying season tickets for football, basketball and baseball I will gladly tell them why. But it’s not my job to fix it. The folks paid to get results aren’t pulling their weight and people know it.

 

[TrueBlue147]

Should we start giving the money that we would have paid to BRAA/season tickets to some kind of effort/organization/campaign that will put pressure on the university to make a change? I'm not sure what that looks like but I would be willing to donate to some type of well thought out effort.

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

Should we start giving the money that we would have paid to BRAA/season tickets to some kind of effort/organization/campaign that will put pressure on the university to make a change? I'm not sure what that looks like but I would be willing to donate to some type of well thought out effort.

What would be more effective is to get a group of people that donate to the BRAA and contact the BRAA AD representative and have a sit down with them and ask the tough questions.

Being heard makes a bigger impact than fading away.

 

[sWiley]

Should organize an account for all BRAA donators to donate too. The money adds up and gains interest and once Massaro is replaced, the money is released to the BRAA.

 

[Sommy]

I still think we have to send an actual message with the money and attendance impact. Have to get their attention.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

I still think we have to send an actual message with the money and attendance impact. Have to get their attention.

Guys, they can already see the tarps and empty seats. They don’t care.

 

[blueraiderJT]

FranklinRaider315 finally said something that I actually agree with, They don't care. It's a state school and these guys aren't gonna fire themselves. We are stuck with them like we are with Stock. It's what it is.

 

[JohnDavidBlue]

How is this thought ever going to drive me to donate EVER again. I wasn’t contributing much but what would drive me to do that given these circumstances.

 

[Sommy]

Yes, it's been a problem for too long and they don't seem to be interested in fixing anything. That's why I think we need a more organized effort If people here and there just stop donations and stop attending, they will justify it for some reason. If we can clearly point to this is why we are unhappy, this is the impact to the school and this is what we want to see it's more of an impact. All of that on a unified one message front. That would have more impact.

I really think if we had this one sort of letter, sent certified mail to M&M, and sent out to as many media outlets as we could think of it might just work. We hope it gets picked up (assuming it's well written and there are numbers that get some attention) by the media and just amplifies what we are trying to bring attention to. We try to make it go viral and we all know the media loves drama.

The bottom line is the Athletic Dept is so clueless how to run anything. We can either accept mediocrity, which is fine if you are happy with it, and complain on message boards, OR we can take action and do things to get their attention.

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

All of you making suggesting need to take action. Talk is cheap, take the leadership and lead the effort.

 

[blueraiderJT]

I'm all ears. You need about 500,000 to be taken seriously. That's enough to buy out Massaro and get McPhee to talk with you. I tried to work with them 10 years ago and donated about 25k of work to their marketing and Massaro didn't give me the time of Day. Brad Smith did and he was the best thing they had in that department. They ran him off. I think not even 500k would do the trick.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

All of you making suggesting need to take action. Talk is cheap, take the leadership and lead the effort.

I’ve previously given both time and money. No longer care to deal with anyone left over there. Alan, Clint, Roy, Linda were the best. And during the good years like ‘09 when Stock and Massaro actually gave a crap, it was fun and worth my time.

Call me when this bunch is gone.

 

[RaiderDawg78]

All of you making suggesting need to take action. Talk is cheap, take the leadership and lead the effort.

See my most More4Middle.

I am not an organizer. But I will gladly provide a mechanism for a systematic approach to attempt to push change.

So far there are 4 people that have said they would like to organize together. I welcome all making suggestions to join and may be make a group effort.

We complain and do nothing other than what we are currently doing, nothing will change.

If we organize and get any change, then it’s progress. If noting changes after our efforts, we are no worse off than now.

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

All of you making suggesting need to take action. Talk is cheap, take the leadership and lead the effort.

See my most More4Middle.

I am not an organizer. But I will gladly provide a mechanism for a systematic approach to attempt to push change.

So far there are 4 people that have said they would like to organize together. I welcome all making suggestions to join and may be make a group effort.

We complain and do nothing other than what we are currently doing, nothing will change.

If we organize and get any change, then it’s progress. If noting changes after our efforts, we are no worse off than now.

Great. I’m one of the 4. My guess is most will hide behind their keyboards