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Brew_Raider said:

My group once had a lady roll up a towel and snap it at our backs for standing up during a game. She never asked us to sit. Never said anything before. We noticed it when she popped my friend in the neck.

I’ve heard annoying things from opposing fans, but the only issues I’ve ever really dealt with are the MT blue hairs or drunk MT fans.

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I don't understand people like this. No don't stand the entire game, but any fan worth a snot should stand at good plays. And snap a towel? Come on. I've gotten dirty looks and talked about but if someone snapped me like that I'd probably lose it. I guarantee I'd be calling Lee or Hans and getting them removed.

I'm a firm believer if you go to a game and don't come home hoarse from yelling and sore hands from clapping, don't come to another game. Just stay home.

Another player. Sure sounds like some coach made some verbal commitments. Still though, onus should be on the players to get it in writing. But until there are rules in place, ie a CBA, this will become more common.

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MT01 said:

Doug, I guess we'll see. Maybe I'm just different. I used to scout and was in player development in baseball (Mets/Expos) before I shifted to MT and then on to other things thereafter.

I can evaluate talent, capability, scheme, etc., regardless of who an opponent is. And while assessing football is different than baseball, it's really hard for me to unsee what I've seen so far. Maybe it's just a matter of this team getting comfortable in a new system? Idk. It doesn't look like it to me but if they get anywhere near 6-6 then maybe that's it. But that's me looking at a near empty glass and trying to call it half full. I just don't see this as feasible no matter how soft the schedule is.

Most of the teams we have left have also played tougher teams, which is why they have poor records. But of the games I've watched of those schools most of them didn't lose like we did or look as bad as we have. Tech, Liberty, and Jax St all look like we will be heavy underdogs. FIU and NMSU look like tough games we could lose. I don't know how FIU lost to Monmouth after drilling Central Michigan. UTEP and Kennesaw look like potentially winnable games but I have low confidence. Kennesaw has a Dwight Dasher type QB that's probably going to give us all sorts of fits.

Kennesaw is the only game ESPN has us predicted to win and even that game is near toss up in the matchup predictor. And with our tradition of granting schools their first FBS win. Uhh...

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You might be right.

I expected everything I've seen so far. It's not what i've hoped for, but it is what I expected to happen.

I expect us to look a lot better and more competitive vs that late season slate. I don't know how many we'll win, but i'll be disappointed if we're still bumbling around on defense vs those teams.

DisgruntledAlum said:

Anyone else see this?

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My group once had a lady roll up a towel and snap it at our backs for standing up during a game. She never asked us to sit. Never said anything before. We noticed it when she popped my friend in the neck.

I’ve heard annoying things from opposing fans, but the only issues I’ve ever really dealt with are the MT blue hairs or drunk MT fans.

I can’t wait to see what Doug has to say when we are 2-10. It’s sad he will have to see that before admitting this is the worse team we’ve fielded in 30 years, but some people just take a lot of convincing I guess.

We should have fired McPhee and Steve smith and then figured out what we were doing with McDevitt and Stockstill. Both probably need to be fired too but there’s no point paying Stockstill 5 million to walk away when McPhee and Steve smith will just make an even worse hire.

Now we certainly are stuck with Mason for the life of his contract. No way we could buy him out too.

Should have fired McPhee and Steve smith first.

mtfblue said:

You still have to have talent

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I agree we lack talent.

I dislike how they are implementing our untalented players.

Doug, I guess we'll see. Maybe I'm just different. I used to scout and was in player development in baseball (Mets/Expos) before I shifted to MT and then on to other things thereafter.

I can evaluate talent, capability, scheme, etc., regardless of who an opponent is. And while assessing football is different than baseball, it's really hard for me to unsee what I've seen so far. Maybe it's just a matter of this team getting comfortable in a new system? Idk. It doesn't look like it to me but if they get anywhere near 6-6 then maybe that's it. But that's me looking at a near empty glass and trying to call it half full. I just don't see this as feasible no matter how soft the schedule is.

Most of the teams we have left have also played tougher teams, which is why they have poor records. But of the games I've watched of those schools most of them didn't lose like we did or look as bad as we have. Tech, Liberty, and Jax St all look like we will be heavy underdogs. FIU and NMSU look like tough games we could lose. I don't know how FIU lost to Monmouth after drilling Central Michigan. UTEP and Kennesaw look like potentially winnable games but I have low confidence. Kennesaw has a Dwight Dasher type QB that's probably going to give us all sorts of fits.

Kennesaw is the only game ESPN has us predicted to win and even that game is near toss up in the matchup predictor. And with our tradition of granting schools their first FBS win. Uhh...

MidTennMtneer said:

We need more than just that from soccer. I'd 100% support relegation in college football with salary caps for the tiers. 100%.

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Promotion/Relegation would be awesome, but no power AD is going to go for that. Any program that gets relegated is going to clean house and no admin is going to risk their spot on the athletics gravy train.

I still think if you had buyouts, that would allow you to essentially monetize your roster and put the funds back into the program.

I.e. if you found a 2-star nobody QB that turned into the next Mahomes, imaging what that would be worth to the Alabama's and Tennessee's of the college football world? You could buy an entire roster with those funds.

Pretty much said an assistant coach verbally offered 100k. No one ever confirmed that and they paid him 3k to move and offer 4 months at 3k. I feel like the truth is probably a coach said something but never promised it and now that they are doing well he wants to make some money by transferring next season.

MT01 said:

For the back-up QB at wkcc to not complete 90% of his passes for 400 yards in less than a full game.



Not sure what time periods you're referring to, but it's not going to be "fixed" so long as Smith and McPhee are still here. So, I guess that's a significant portion of where my ire is drawn from. But that comment was directed at any fans too who want to make excuses for the back up QB at western making this team look like a sub .500 high school team. There's no excuse for it. I don't care if it's a new coach, 50 new players, etc. It shouldn't happen. But it does here. So that's it. Just don't make excuses for it. That's little middle mentality and I can't stand it. Our fan base is partially to blame for allowing things to get to this point.

I know we're not going to flip things with the team overnight. As I said above yes I am one who thought 5-7 might be reachable at the beginning but even that was with significant apprehension. But as has been pointed out to you several times that you're still not getting it's not the W/L so far it's how bad this team looks that has nothing to do with the opponent. I don't know how to say it any better. Austin said it too and you appear to still not get it. There is nothing about this year's team that's on track. A .500 season isn't even remotely feasible, so if you can't understand that I don't know what else to tell you.

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For the back-up QB at wkcc to not complete 90% of his passes for 400 yards in less than a full game.

Yep, that sucked. But from time to time, opposing players play well. It happens to every team at every level all the time.

No one would watch sports if the you were guaranteed a specific outcome every single time.

The average margin of WKU victory the last 3 year has been 22 points. They outscored us by 28. It's not some historic beatdown here. It's pretty much par for the course and just shows the gap between the two programs currently.


it's not the W/L so far it's how bad this team looks that has nothing to do with the opponent

You're all incorrect here. The quality of opponent does matter when evaluating the early season performances. This program is not currently competitive with the top of P5 nor with WKU. It hasn't been for years. No one should have expected anything but what we've seen.

Did anyone really expect that thought that would change in a few months, especially with all the change from top to bottom and the 2 decades of rot that had set in.

What does it matter "how" we lost?

People keep saying "because the scheme". I got news for you guys - certain units on this roster might be so bad, that there's nothing you can do scheme wise. This isn't rock-paper-scissors, where there's a counter to everything. There's no scheme that makes bad players good. There's no play-calls that can cover for completely talent or physically deficient units.

If there was, every game would end 0-0. Unless you believe they're all just stupid and we're all just football savants in the wrong industry. MoAr Blitzin!!!!!

It's very possible that this program as it is right now with the roster they have, against quality teams in college football (yes, WKU, Duke, OM, and Memphis are quality programs), will simply have to pick it's poison.



There is nothing about this year's team that's on track. A .500 season isn't even remotely feasible, so if you can't understand that I don't know what else to tell you.

I still don't understand how everyone knows that.

Again, the remainder of the schedule is super soft. There are teams that we will play that won't have such a talent, or coaching, or program infrastructure advantage right now.

Again - I can't make this crystal clear enough - i'm not saying that we have been good or that the team's performances have been anything near competitive - they clearly have not.

I'm just saying that we need to see the entire body of work this year before the pitchforks come out.

RaiderDoug said:

I've been reading about this all morning. What a shitshow.

Still think we need the soccer model - sign a player to a 1-4 year contract. The player/team can buy his way out of it at anytime if he wants to transfer or if the school wants him to leave. Protects the school, protects the player.

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We need more than just that from soccer. I'd 100% support relegation in college football with salary caps for the tiers. 100%.

Anyone else see this?

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RaiderDoug said:

I really don't know what people were expecting from the opening 5 games.

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For the back-up QB at wkcc to not complete 90% of his passes for 400 yards in less than a full game.

RaiderDoug said:

"We have a massive culture problem at this school."

Agreed. But do you think it's fair to expect that to be fixed in such a short amount of time?

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Not sure what time periods you're referring to, but it's not going to be "fixed" so long as Smith and McPhee are still here. So, I guess that's a significant portion of where my ire is drawn from. But that comment was directed at any fans too who want to make excuses for the back up QB at western making this team look like a sub .500 high school team. There's no excuse for it. I don't care if it's a new coach, 50 new players, etc. It shouldn't happen. But it does here. So that's it. Just don't make excuses for it. That's little middle mentality and I can't stand it. Our fan base is partially to blame for allowing things to get to this point.

I know we're not going to flip things with the team overnight. As I said above yes I am one who thought 5-7 might be reachable at the beginning but even that was with significant apprehension. But as has been pointed out to you several times that you're still not getting it's not the W/L so far it's how bad this team looks that has nothing to do with the opponent. I don't know how to say it any better. Austin said it too and you appear to still not get it. There is nothing about this year's team that's on track. A .500 season isn't even remotely feasible, so if you can't understand that I don't know what else to tell you.

I've been reading about this all morning. What a shitshow.

Still think we need the soccer model - sign a player to a 1-4 year contract. The player/team can buy his way out of it at anytime if he wants to transfer or if the school wants him to leave. Protects the school, protects the player.

Yup. Depends on if you listen to the school, him and his parents and agent, or the other rumors.

Either way, this can only be fixed with true contracts which means employment and a CBA. And none of that is sustainable for schools our size and budget, hence why I think there will be a split in the next decade. Those who can pay a salary, and those who can supply the current model.

MT01 said:

Why attempt to whitewash these performances? Each of these QBs had their best day of the season against us. It’s like they were going against air. There was no resistance. That should not happen at this level no matter how new the coach is. Western wouldn’t accept this. It’s why they fired a coach after only two seasons. We have a massive culture problem at this school.

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I'm not whitewashing them. I've never said they were good performances.

But there are mitigating factors here that we absolutely must take into account when evaluating performances.

This is a brand new staff, with 50+ new players, taking over a program that has little to no current support, little to no current facilities, little to no prior recruiting pipelines, little to no prior player development, who lost quite a bit of talent to the portal, and then suffered a couple of big injuries - against what appears to be a very difficult early season schedule for any team.

I really don't know what people were expecting from the opening 5 games. Our first 4 FBS opponents are collectively 14-2 right now. The next 6 are 8-18, and Liberty has 4 of those wins. It was always going to get worse before it got better.

Everyone in the season predictions thread had us somewhere between 5-7/7-5 right? So, unless you were out of your mind and predicted wins vs Ole Miss, Duke, and Memphis and losses vs Kennesaw and FIU and the like, then we're right on track as to what everyone predicted.


"We have a massive culture problem at this school."

Agreed. But do you think it's fair to expect that to be fixed in such a short amount of time?

No form tackling, no blocking, and can’t hang on to the dang football. This gets you the L. Does not matter who we play. If we are unable to do the basics we will take the L.

Brew_Raider said:

I’m more disappointed in the philosophy on defense and lack of fundamentals across the board when tackling.


I cannot stress how much I disagree with loose coverage in our secondary. I get injuries limit scheme and how exotic we can get on D. However, I firmly believe we need to be in press quarters on the outside. I have heard too many great coaches say you play loose when you have talent and play more press when you lack talent. This is Saban, Narduzzi, and Smart, down to Jeremy Pruitt.

We are dead last in the country in pass yards allowed. You just have to do something different. Go to press quarters, add more pressures, something different. We are currently giving up 75% completion and then relying on tackling in space.

I am surprised with lack of adjustments given the experience of our coaching staff on D. Really disappointing.

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You still have to have talent

Yeah, if you're going to allow 90% completion percentage you have to tackle at an elite level. We're not even tackling at a middle school level.

RaiderDoug said:

I noticed that vs WKU. I'm just not sure if the culprit is the athletes or the schemes. Or both. Many of the WKU completions, WKU guys were just a step ahead of our guys.

And I hate to keep beating a dead horse here - but there's not a lot of pass defenses that will come out looking good vs Jaxon Dart/Lane Kiffen, Malik Murphy, Seth Henigan and Memphis's high flying offense, and WKU/Tyson Helton who is known for their pass offense.

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For me, it’s the philosophy as much or more than the result. Most of the teams we have played are going to torch a lot of teams throwing the ball. We are limited by talent.

When your limited by new players, new coaches and injuries, you have to simplify schemes and rely on base packages more.

Some coaches think you should play off when you are limited. Some coaches think you have to be more aggressive and press more. We have chosen to handle the problem by being more in off coverage. I disagree with this. I said something about it against Tech and it’s carried over.. If we are going to get lit up anyway, might as well try to press and add more pressures so that maybe we force a turnover, knock a receiver off their route, disrupt time, etc.

It can’t be much worse.