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Stockstill can't get losses 'out of system'

Pfffft. I'm over it. No way it's gonna ruin my Christmas Holiday season. I'm sure Will is gonna have a great time in Jacksonville at the TaxSlayer Bowl. Go Vols. Yay.
 
You know what? I loved the article. It's nice to know Stock is pissed about the season. It's good to know that those 2 games really pisses him off. This will carry into next season which is a great thing. I hope that all of his players gets a copy of the article for the winter. I hope it's posted in the weight room.
 
Originally posted by blueraiderJT:
You know what? I loved the article. It's nice to know Stock is pissed about the season. It's good to know that those 2 games really pisses him off. This will carry into next season which is a great thing. I hope that all of his players gets a copy of the article for the winter. I hope it's posted in the weight room.
Good post, and I agree 100%.

6-6 isn't "let's fire everybody and burn this mofo down" time.

But no one can be happy with the way the season ended.

I'm glad to hear Stock say it. I thought that UTEP presser finally brought out some real Stock, not the droning coach-speak we usually get.
 
It is one thing to be pissed off. It is another thing to do something about it. Unless Stockstill learns how to progress, our football program will fall further and further behind.
 
Yeah, well, I can't get a lot out of my system about the program.

Hope he enjoyed watching WKU running right by us.

#stuckstill

This post was edited on 12/24 9:09 PM by JohnDavidBlue
 
Re: Looking back at MT's 2014 football season

Nothing will happen! A man at this age can't be asked to change his personality or style.
 
Re: Looking back at MT's 2014 football season


Originally posted by MTLover:
Nothing will happen! A man at this age can't be asked to change his personality or style.
Personality....no. Style.....hell yes. He is still fairly new to being a head coach compared to many D1A coaches. At this point, it is Massaro's job to "help" him work on changes.
 
Re: Looking back at MT's 2014 football season


Originally posted by MidTnBlues:
Not a dang thing wrong with his style.
Off the field....no. On the field......depends on if you like an ultra-conservative approach at game changing moments. I swear, at times, you can actually hear Stock's butt pucker.
 
Re: Looking back at MT's 2014 football season


Originally posted by MidTnBlues:
Not a dang thing wrong with his style.
As far as academics and program management, agree coach is doing just fine with his style. As far as play selection and W/L results, think that is highly debatable at 6-6. This year was a mixed bag at best that left room for serious disappointment. Think 2015 will tell us whether his style will need a major revamping. Think WKU and Marshall would lead the pack as far as finishing 1-2 in the East next year, given what we know now. Hopefully, we can build on that style but that far from certain.
 
Re: Looking back at MT's 2014 football season

Originally posted by Raiderclyde:

Originally posted by MidTnBlues:
Not a dang thing wrong with his style.
As far as academics and program management, agree coach is doing just fine with his style. As far as play selection and W/L results, think that is highly debatable at 6-6. This year was a mixed bag at best that left room for serious disappointment. Think 2015 will tell us whether his style will need a major revamping. Think WKU and Marshall would lead the pack as far as finishing 1-2 in the East next year, given what we know now. Hopefully, we can build on that style but that far from certain.
Unless we see some huge improvement from this year, and some steps forward by players and upgrades at certain positions from incoming personnel, I just have a feeling 7-5, 6-6 may be the ceiling for expectations.
 
Re: Looking back at MT's 2014 football season

Its funny to see the negativity spread. Its just irrational. Things I have read on "fan" sites lately are comical. One thread wishing we would run up tempo like memphis. Fun fact: we ran a faster tempo than Memphis by about half a second per play. There is another post about how awful our kick coverage was this year when its actually the best its been in a almost a decade. No run backs and average return was 23 yards. Now WKU has blown past us. Despite losing to us, having a worse conference record and if our attendance is a problem they average 2k less per game so what does that mean for them. Clearly they have passed by. Self loathing just won't go away around here. Merry Christmas!
 
Nothing is more disappointing as a player, coach, fan or alum than to look out across Floyd Stadium on game day and see nothing but empty blue chair backs in the Club section and empty aluminum bleachers. I can only imagine what it looks like on TV even with scripted camera angles. I don't have the answers but I'm not paid to come up with them either.
 
Re: Looking back at MT's 2014 football season

Originally posted by SpaceRaider:
Originally posted by Raiderclyde:

Originally posted by MidTnBlues:
Not a dang thing wrong with his style.
As far as academics and program management, agree coach is doing just fine with his style. As far as play selection and W/L results, think that is highly debatable at 6-6. This year was a mixed bag at best that left room for serious disappointment. Think 2015 will tell us whether his style will need a major revamping. Think WKU and Marshall would lead the pack as far as finishing 1-2 in the East next year, given what we know now. Hopefully, we can build on that style but that far from certain.
Unless we see some huge improvement from this year, and some steps forward by players and upgrades at certain positions from incoming personnel, I just have a feeling 7-5, 6-6 may be the ceiling for expectations.
With Illinois, Alabama, and Vanderbilt on the schedule, plus WKU on the road and Doughtry back for his final year (6th!) we have precious little room for error. If we win 2 out of 4 plus take care of business by winning against Marshall back at home, we look good at 7-5. But we would need to go 3-1 to have the breakout year everyone wants and that will be difficult. I can also see scenarios that render us 1-4 on the aforementioned portion of the schedule. That would spell at absolute best 6-6, or more likely 5-7. Think we have that one game where we should win, but we get upset, like FIU. Agree we need upgrades and players stepping up to advance beyond 6-6 or 7-5.

Another question is who do we play in the West this year--Rice? LaTech? UTSA? North Texas? Like our chances better against UTSA or UNT rather than La Tech or Rice just from the "on paper" view.
 
Re: Looking back at MT's 2014 football season

Without a real QB we will go nowhere! Look at the C-USA teams that have won their games so far and you will see their QB quality! If we return the same quality of QB play who can't stretch the field beyond 20 yards then we will struggle as teams continue to challenge our offensive line. I am not an expert on Football by any means and never played it, but I have watched enough MT football to tell that our offensive team had no identity this year, just like last year and the year before.
 
I think we are seeing conservative play because the coach wants to have a better shot at extending his contract each year, instead of having a better shot at going bowling. He's more focused on preserving his position than he is going bowling. He won't risk it.
 
All I know is it's gonna be one long stretch from Winter through Spring and Summer. Stock made a comment two years ago on signing day at the get together in the Hall of Fame. Something along the lines of "he doesn't really get excited about the signings because they are two years away from really being able to contribute. Well.......I hope he does something to get folks halfway excited after the turd they laid the last quarter of this season. Right now, I'm in a funk of "I don't care".
 
For those that don't care anymore why are you still posting on a fan site? If you are done then move on. Why bring the rest of us down? If you complain about empty seats in the stands how is the constant bashing of the program going to help things? I'm excited for next year. Stockwell took a 2-10 team to an 8-4 team that started that season off losing to a d2 program and a win against Georgia tech. He is a damn good coach and I'm confident a lot of you old women will eat crow.
 
The last time I checked, coach Stock is an employee of MT! Criticizing him, his style, whining about how his boring style has lead to empty seats (whether an accurate statement or not) don't necessarily mean bashing MT or giving up! Secondly, if coach Stock turning a terrible season around (after he himself lost to a terrible 1-aa team) is not really something to brag about because we are not supposed to lose to such teams in the first place! I don't understand why people can't handle criticism of coaches and players and take it so personal. Is a fan site only meant to be a lame feel-good place to sugarcoat everything?
 
We dont have to pump sunshine but so many of these posts come from a place of ignorance that they don't need to slide by without being called out.

Like boring style. We ran faster tempo, scored more and had more explosive plays than memphis this year but our ignorant fans call our offense boring and theirs exciting. Its just silly. Attendance is a factor of many things. Style aint one of em I promise. In fact I will bet a paycheck that we have a 5-10% increase next year. We will play the same style and we arevcoming off a worse season than we were last year. Any takers?

This post was edited on 12/26 6:22 PM by TeKEraider
 
Originally posted by TeKEraider:
We dont have to pump sunshine but so many of these posts come from a place of ignorance that they don't need to slide by without being called out.

Like boring style. We ran faster tempo, scored more and had more explosive plays than memphis this year but our ignorant fans call our offense boring and theirs exciting. Its just silly. Attendance is a factor of many things. Style aint one of em I promise. In fact I will bet a paycheck that we have a 5-10% increase next year. We will play the same style and we arevcoming off a worse season than we were last year. Any takers?

This post was edited on 12/26 6:22 PM by TeKEraider
Yay.
 
They can't handle it. Just ignore them. Ignorance is bliss.

Originally posted by MTLover:
The last time I checked, coach Stock is an employee of MT! Criticizing him, his style, whining about how his boring style has lead to empty seats (whether an accurate statement or not) don't necessarily mean bashing MT or giving up! Secondly, if coach Stock turning a terrible season around (after he himself lost to a terrible 1-aa team) is not really something to brag about because we are not supposed to lose to such teams in the first place! I don't understand why people can't handle criticism of coaches and players and take it so personal. Is a fan site only meant to be a lame feel-good place to sugarcoat everything?
 
Hey, you take the good with the bad. Name another part of your life where you get everything you want and everything always comes up roses. I don't piss and moan about that so why would I act like that constantly on here? When that's all there is, it gets old and doesn't sound like criticism anymore. It sounds like whining and who the heck wants to be around toxic whining all day? Sheesh. You don't like him, buy him out of his contract or STHU. There's no resolve with constantly b!tching about something we can't do anything about. All of of us on here already know the situation. Go b!tch to Massaro and McPhee or even Stock if you want. It just gets tiresome and old. That's all I'm saying.

Also, Stock has done a lot more positive things than negative since he's been here. If you don't wanna see that, it's on you. It doesn't make it any less true. Titans fans bitched about Fisher going 8-8 a lot of those years and couldn't wait to show him the door. Now, they all wish he was back here.

To say Stock doesn't care is also pretty friggin stupid. Do you know how many hours these coaches work? 40 hours a week? haahahahaha. Try 100. They rarely see their families especially during the season and while recruiting. The guy cares. No one comes in here when we were on probation with 69 players and takes us to a bowl his first year while taking a paycut without caring. No one takes us from one of the worst APR teams to one of the best without caring. If you want top level ball, then go route for BAMA. Mid majors don't have the infrastructure or resources to compete on that level on a regular basis. BTW, I'll take any of you guys over BAMA fans any day. I'm counting my blessings here, trust me.

We had 2 plays that basically prevented us from getting 8 wins. You can argue the other way but we got those plays. I'm talking about what we didn't get. For Stock to come out and say what he said in that article and for Massaro to say the same thing too speaks volumes to me about how they feel. They are not happy and adjustments will be made.

Say what you will but whenever we've have had a down season with Stock, we've come back and kicked butt the next season. Even though we went 5-7 twice in a row in 2007 and 2008, we beat Maryland and almost got UK in 08 which was a marginal improvement. 2009, well, we know how that went. The Belt got better that year too. I've never heard Stock talk the way he did about those 2 plays which means he's gonna focus on it all offseason. The issues we have will be addressed.

Also, I don't care what anyone on here says. I'll take 6-6 over 2-10 any day. In the past 3 seasons we are +7. We have gotten better against better talent. CUSA is probably gonna win the G5 bowl competition where the winning conference gets a 2.5 million extra payout. We went 4-1. No other G5 conference has done that yet. That says a lot to me. We had 8 teams on our schedule 6-6 or better. I think 6 of those went to bowls this year. When have we faced that? I can't think of any year in the belt where we faced that many.

Hey, in the end you can discount all of what I say but I'm looking forward not backwards and there's reason for optimism. I believe in redemption as well and I think we'll get it.

Is it ok to still say GO BLUE? Cuz I'm saying it. Go Blue! :)
 
I never understood the whole "we're too boring" or "we're too conservative".

I've been serious watcher of football for 20 years. I'm sure many more have many more years in it than I do.

There's no one football strategy that always works.

"Well, if we'd just never kneel or punt the ball, we'd go 12-0 and win every game by 40!!!"

The fact is, this game is a game of percentages. You kneel and punt when you do because it's safe, and safe football is synonymous with smart football.

It doesn't always work, and it never ever will.

As for boring - what's more boring than Alabama's or LSU's offense? What's more boring than NFL's cookie-cutter offenses? Do you guys need crazy reverses or flea-flickers every drive? Believe me, you'll just be watching a bunch of punts.

I hear the word creative (or not creative) bandied here a lot. Winning football isn't about being creative. Is Oregon creative? No, it's the same run'n'shoot we saw back in 1994.

It's about finding the things your players can do well and getting them to execute those things to the best of their ability.

I have a feeling that if we went back to the wing-T and won 11 games, no one would be complaining about our stone age offense.

And honestly, you really can't get more exciting than the 2 or 3 games a year we seem to win at the last second.

I totally get the dissatisfaction about how the season ended.

But some of you are morphing into fans where nothing will ever be good enough. If we win, it's just because we're supposed to, or we won't have won enough, or by a big enough margin, or because we didn't call the plays you think we should have called, etc, etc.

2014 was dissapointing, but suck it up. This is your team and program and school. Tough times happen for everyone. But recruiting is going well. We have a lot of returning talent. Let's see what 2015 brings.

There may be a time to start over, but if you want to start over ever time we go 6-6 (which is going to happen from time to time), you're not being very realistic.

This post was edited on 12/27 10:43 AM by RaiderDoug

This post was edited on 12/27 10:45 AM by RaiderDoug
 
^ Some good points, but the difference between Alabama's "boring" offense and ours is that they almost always find a way to win. They also completely dominate really good teams at times. We rarely ever completely dominate any D1A team. As I have already stated before, our offense looks really good against bad and mediocre defenses. However, it is amazing how ineffective our offense gets when a defense stymies it. All too often, modifications are not made. It just looks like the coach says "we are just going to stick to the plan until it works!" It is painful to watch the same plays being run in the second half that failed to work in the first half. There is a difference between being adamant and just being stubborn. When it comes to our defense, it simply is not aggressive enough. In general, smaller teams have to be aggressive against bigger, more talented teams. It needs to be a situation where we let it all hang out. It is frustrating to actually see us do that in some games like Georgia Tech, but to get ultra-conservative in other games. True, we are not going to get the kind of talent that larger programs do, but we also do not play a killer SEC schedule either. Half the teams that we play are also former Sun Belt teams. A few more are new programs. We should do better than we have, plain and simple. I also do not want to get rid of Stockstill, but I do want to see signs that we have a coach that is willing to adapt.

This post was edited on 1/1 4:10 PM by mtutmut
 
Originally posted by mtutmut:
^ Some good points, but the difference between Alabama's "boring" offense and our is that they almost always find a way to win. They also completely dominate really good teams at times. We rarely ever completely dominate any D1A team. As I have already stated before, our offense looks really good against bad and mediocre defenses. However, it is amazing how ineffective our offense gets when a defense stymies it. All too often, modifications are not made. It just looks like the coach says "we are just going to stick to the plan until it works!" It is painful to watch the same plays being run the the second half that failed to work in the first half. There is a difference between being adamant and just being stubborn. When it comes to our defense, it simply is not aggressive enough. In general, smaller teams have to be aggressive against bigger, more talented teams. It needs to be a situation where we let it all hang out. It is frustrating to actually see us do that in some games like Georgia Tech, but to get ultra-conservative in other games. True, we are not going to get the kind of talent that larger programs do, but we also do not play a killer SEC schedule either. Half the teams that we play are also former Sun Belt teams. A few more are new programs. We should do better than we have, plain and simple. I also do not want to get rid of Stockstill, but I do want to see signs that we have a coach that is willing to adapt.
You quite frequently say so much I agree with.

A few more thoughts:

Speaking of "whiners" and "complainers" being negative and should just go cheer for Alabama. Sadly, that exactly is a tremendously large problem for MTSU. Many students, alumni, and football fans in general see an average football team without buzz or excitement and THEY ARE going to cheer for $EC teams that are on major networks in primetime with tons of media coverage and huge excited crowds at their stadiums. So, this recommended formula is not working for MTSU as evidenced by average record and way too many empty seats on game day at MTSU.

I don't quite get this attitude that says "negative" talk not allowed here. This sheeple mentality does not lead to good places. I'm not one that is going to yield to some groupthink sheeple mentality that everyone must say only positive things. In my view, these forums are for discussion and info. Hopefully good discussion on the good forums. Don't get me wrong, I get that some are calling out negative criticism that is rooted in logical fallacies or factual errors. IMO, that is what forums are good for. Again, discussion and info. Hopefully good and correct info where some might have a factual misunderstanding.

Up until the last quarter of this season, I was almost vehemently defending coach stock's performance. With his history of finishing strong vs weaker conference opponents, I thought a real chance was still there for 7 if not 8 wins this season. I did admit losing 2 of the final games would be downright unacceptable. Then the unthinkable happened and MTSU did lay a turd at FIU Since then, I'm now counted among the group sounding the alarm and/or are really concerned. Lack of attendance and lack of buzz around the program and campus is a factor. In some ways, it seems the program is going slightly backwards.

My beef with the status of the program at this time is not so much with strategy or schemes. I generally like the push for a strong running game. My concerns are along the lines of attitude, player development, and identity. Some of this are the intangibles. For instance, credit goes to coach stock for preaching protecting the ball. It's just baffling how so many turnovers were given up down the stretch of the season. How many was it at FIU? Need I mention turnovers in the redzone? I just don't know what the heck is going on there, but I know it's not good. Another concern, coach stock & OC did not seem to allow much less push Grammer to develop over the season regarding throwing the ball 15+ yards down the middle of the field. I get that they wanted to start the season with the safe passes out to WR screen type plays. It just seemed Grammer never really opened up as the season went on.

Lastly, the DL has just made very little improvement in the last few years. Last year, the defense may have given up extra yards, but they hit hard and caused fumbles. This year, that identity for the defense never really showed up. Even though there are some stellar players capable of such play i.e. Barber & Byard. To me, that was a real disappointment. I loved that identity that MT was developing the previous year of hard hitting and causing turnovers. To me, this speaks to leadership and attitude. Some things that need help and change this off season. Of course this along with tremendous recruiting of some serious talent.
 
Duke,

What you see is in fact our coaching philosophy. The reason why you don't see our QB develop his passing game is because we WANT to run the ball. The reasons why the D doesn't pressure the QB is because we play a bend and hopefully don't break D. Its all be design. CRS is conservative. His belief that the way to win at our level is to make fewer mistakes.

What you see is exactly what you are going to get. We are going into year 10 with the current leadership. Nothing will change from a team scheme or identity. The team reflects its coach.

The question all of us are asking is can we go to the next level. Some say yes, some say no.

Me personally, I think we will not with the current leadership. I hope I am wrong. College FB is changing rapidly. We will not move fast enough. Again, I hope I am wrong. I will surely eat crow if I am proven wrong.
 
I think conservative is a poor way of describing it.

Look, when Stockstill first came here in 2005 I was fortunate enough to take an advanced football coaching class that he frequently lectured in. He CONSTANTLY talked about his belief that "more teams around the country are losing games versus winning them" in class. He clearly is a believer in eliminating our mistakes and letting the other team beat themselves.

And you know what, that's all fine and dandy when you're playing bottom of the barrel teams because guess what? Most of the time those teams ARE going to beat themselves.....

But what about when we play a formidable team with a pulse who isn't going to beat themselves and will execute somewhat decently? We get destroyed and forced into a ton of mistakes and usually embarassed.

He's gonna have to adapt his philosophy a little bit and starting finding ways to compete with good teams.
This post was edited on 1/1 11:09 AM by sWiley
 
Relying on the other team to make mistakes while trying to limit your own mistakes is the very definition of a conservative football philosophy.
 
After reading the previous two posts, all I can think of is the first half at Minnesota. WE were the weak team in the Stock philosophy. It was absolutely awful. Then the next week we managed to outscore WKU in a track meet. And Memphis set the tone for the rest of the season.

Thank God for the likes of UAB, USM and Old Dominion where Stock could practice this strategy. I call it playing not to lose. We have reached a pathetic standard of performance when we reward him for being bowl eligible because he beat Savannah Sisters of the Poor by 54 points.



This post was edited on 1/1 3:02 PM by FranklinRaider315

This post was edited on 1/1 3:06 PM by FranklinRaider315
 
Mike, I get what you are saying. It's likely just a very small difference if any in what you and I are talking about. I do think he goes too conservative all too frequently. I'd describe that as an overall philosophy, but I get your point in that his schemes and playcalling are born of that conservative philosophy. Part of what I'm saying is I'm not necessarily picking apart one particular called play in a game as the reason for my concern. It's the whole way too conservative approach, IMO.

While I like that he pushes for a strong running game, it is frustrating to watch him not take advantage of the opportunities a strong run game offers. So many teams have figured out to stack the box vs MT offense. Instead of play-action throwing over the top or just burning the D for overplaying the run, the passes are the type that plays right into the defenses' stacked box.

Bottomline, coach stock is at a crossroads IMO. Those losses are bothering him tremendously. At this critical point in time, does he continue to do exactly what he has been doing for years, or does he take the sting of those losses as an opportunity to adapt philosophy & concepts of play? Particularly, will he begin to play to win vs continuing to play not to lose? In the SunBelt, his approach might have yielded a fair amount of success, but MT is no longer in the SunBelt. MT students, alumni, and fans want to see MT play to win vs top CUSA teams and P5 programs. Next year's schedule pretty much demands it, or it could get pretty ugly next year.

Also, he really needs to step up recruiting. While it looks like some 3 star type players are starting to show up, MT needs a whole mess of 3 star recruits. Heck, stealing a 4 star recruit along the way would be nice. It would be nice to see MT win recruiting battles against nationally recognized programs instead of recruiting wins vs UL-M, UT-M, Jacksonville State, or Ga St. How about some recruiting wins vs Marshall, NC State, UCF, Louisville, MissSt, or even getting one or two of the top talent in Murfreesboro to stay here instead of going to UT. I'm not holding my breath though. Heck, I'd take recruiting wins vs North Texas, La Tech, ODU, and WKU at this point.
 
Clyde, I want you to be our head coach's official adviser, with the power to veto any stupid decision, and the power to make command decisions. You may not be an Xs and Os guy, but we need some IQ here at MT. You could be our BASF.
 
Looking at Stockstill it is obvious that his best offense, best defense and best year was with Diaz and Franklin.

The best coaches (Saban, Surburban Meyer, etc.) win at a high level with different coordinators wherever they go whereas other head coaches are dependent upon their coordinators ability.

Unfortunately, Stockstill is no Saban or Meyer.
 
Dasher was also a factor under qualified coaching. It would be nice to have one or two go to guys. Remember that Defense guy North Texas had last decade? Brandon Kennedy...What was his nickname...booger? Their offense was ugly but their defense owned the Belt.

Originally posted by MTLynn:
Looking at Stockstill it is obvious that his best offense, best defense and best year was with Diaz and Franklin.

The best coaches (Saban, Surburban Meyer, etc.) win at a high level with different coordinators wherever they go whereas other head coaches are dependent upon their coordinators ability.

Unfortunately, Stockstill is no Saban or Meyer.
 
LOL, JohnDavidBlue, I remember UNT's DT "Booger." What was he 5-10 and 320 lbs? He was a force in the SBC.
 
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