G5 Playoff

[mtfblue]

Group of Five playoff being pitched by Derek Dooley, financially backed by private equity firms

The ex-Tennessee coach's proposal is an attempt to offset the financial setback under the new CFP media rights deal

www.cbssports.com

 

[ewglenn]

I love the idea but no way that it gets passed. Realignment to 8 conferences of 8 teams that are geographically aligned then having those 8 champions play in a playoff for the CFP spot is brilliant. It addresses every issue that the G5 has. We would have conferences that build rivalries, reduce travel, while adding money to everyone’s pocket while still having a shot at the actual national championship. Great idea but it will never happen.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

I'd 1000% get behind this, but it'll never happen. Too many egos involved. Maybe with Aresco retired, but I doubt it.

Sankey said this week that if the CFP deal hadn't gotten worked out for 12 teams, the SEC was ready to walk. There is zero doubt in my mind that the expanded playoff won't last past its first media deal. The P2 will be gone. So something needs done to build up G5 brands for sure.

I do applaud the outside the box thinking which the G5 desperately need to do. I've said before CUSA should do pods and make their own playoff to be unique. Adapt that to the G5.

 

[ewglenn]

These look really good to me. This would give everyone 5 OOC games to fill in with other regional matchups and rivalries that aren’t on conference (App vs GS, MTSU vs Troy, the Ohio schools, etc.). If money would go up a lot I could see some people getting on board but it would need to be substantially more money and cut travel by a lot.

Northeast
UMASS
Buffalo
Army
Navy
Temple
Liberty
JMU
ODU

MAC
EMU
CMU
WMU
Toledo
Kent State
Bowling Green
Akron
NIU

Coastal
ECU
Kennesaw St
CCU
GS
GSU
FAU
FIU
USF

Mid South
App St
Miami (OH)
Marshall
WKU
Charlotte
Ohio
Ball St
MTSU

Southern
UAB
JSU
Troy
USA
USM
Memphis
Arkansas St
Tulane

Cajun
Tulsa
ULM
Louisiana Lafayette
Louisiana Tech
SHSU
Rice
UNT
Missouri St

Desert
UTSA
TX State
NMSU
UTEP
UNM
Air Force
Colorado St
Wyoming

West Coast
Hawaii
Fresno St
San Jose St
SDSU
Nevada
UNLV
Boise St
Utah St

 

[RaiderDoug]

This would work well.

Ego's are a problem, but there'$ work around$ for team$ that think they're better than everyone el$e. If the $$$'s are bigger than they are now, they'll make it work. The AAC is pretty much the problem, and I get it - they're bigger budgeted, have more teams with Q-ratings (Memphis, Boise), more history than your average FCS newb, but eventually once they see they're getting left out of the P-whatever, it'll make sense.

I don't know when, but this will happen eventually.

 

[MT01]

Won't happen but I believe it's less about ego and more about alignment in a different sense. Some schools have been together for decades. This would upset that. For example Western Michigan has been with Ohio and Miami since the 40s, which is longer than some of these schools have even existed.

And why would it make any sense for MT to be with Miami and Ohio instead of UAB and Troy?

Memphis - putting the obvious aside for a moment - makes no sense that they would be put with Jax St and South Alabama instead of MT. There are also all sorts of issues with the east and coastal but I digress.

Lastly, 8 teams has always been a problematic configuration for conferences, which is another reason why it would be flawed. You would be better off having four 16-team conferences where you can alleviate a lot of the clear issues with this proposal.

 

[RaiderDoug]

Won't happen but I believe it's less about ego and more about alignment in a different sense. Some schools have been together for decades. This would upset that. For example Western Michigan has been with Ohio and Miami since the 40s, which is longer than some of these schools have even existed.

And why would it make any sense for MT to be with Miami and Ohio instead of UAB and Troy?

Memphis - putting the obvious aside for a moment - makes no sense that they would be put with Jax St and South Alabama instead of MT. There are also all sorts of issues with the east and coastal but I digress.

Lastly, 8 teams has always been a problematic configuration for conferences, which is another reason why it would be flawed. You would be better off having four 16-team conferences where you can alleviate a lot of the clear issues with this proposal.

You can swap teams here and there to come up with any configuration that works better for any particular party. You might even see some lower budgeted less-competitive P-conference teams drop down (or forced out), so that could alter the team's in the mix.

I think the bigger takeaway is that these discussions are happening.

I see no way that the P-conferences, as the $$$'s and gap grows, continues to give access to G-conference teams. The $$$'s are too big - it's going to break apart eventually. Texas is never going to willingly share a penny with North Texas. Alabama was more than happy to murder the entire UAB program. P-conferences just haven't figured out a way to horde it all....yet.

This is the only real logical endpoint.

 

[MT01]

The logical end point is it eventually ends up in the courts. And whatever that renders.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

The logical end point is it eventually ends up in the courts. And whatever that renders.

It wouldn't surprise me if behind the scenes there is a push from the SEC etc for a G5 playoff to happen. It would prevent this eventually winding up in the courts if they shut the G5 teams out of the CFP if those G5 teams already had a playoff system. There is less of a legal issue.

The big conferences also are fully aware they could be paying a huge settlement based on the current court cases so they want to keep as much $ as they can. Well, that and greed.

One AD stated after the SEC threat to leave saying fine, we will prevent non-football sports from competing in NCAA championships. Sheesh. That won't stop them. The P2 would be perfectly fine leaving the NCAA for their own thing. Egos and greed, both of which led to the courts now and will lead to a G5 playoff/split.

 

[RaiderDoug]

I'm not sure what the courts can or will do.

There's already a precedent for multi-tiered athletic divisions. No court is going to rule that a program/school/conference is entitled to access to a playoff or a particular share of any $$$$'s.

We already saw the B10 simply annihilate the P12, and no one was able to do anything about it. If the legal system was the remedy, Oregon State and Wazzu and the P12 office would have gone down that path.

Once the P2 figure out the $$$$'s and TV contracts, nothing in the world is going to stop them from breaking away.

 

[MT01]

I hope they try. I don’t usually say this but the sooner this gets into the courts the better. Antitrust is antitrust regardless of industry.

 

[MT01]

I'm not sure what the courts can or will do.

There's already a precedent for multi-tiered athletic divisions. No court is going to rule that a program/school/conference is entitled to access to a playoff or a particular share of any $$$$'s.

We already saw the B10 simply annihilate the P12, and no one was able to do anything about it. If the legal system was the remedy, Oregon State and Wazzu and the P12 office would have gone down that path.

Once the P2 figure out the $$$$'s and TV contracts, nothing in the world is going to stop them from breaking away.

There is no precedent. Divisions were created voluntarily when there was virtually no money involved. Different scenario today.

Also, with respect to Wazzu and Oregon St it’s a completely different issue. Those two schools were focused on preserving the PAC brand for themselves by preventing the other schools from dissolving it and second retain the left behind value to themselves. Their focus was near term preservation not the long game. I can see those being two schools to challenge any future attempts to further isolate schools no in a privileged conference.

 

[sWiley]

I don't watch college athletics much anymore, but when I do, you can bet it's from an illegal stream on an offshore streaming website. (I proudly don't pay for any cable or packages anymore and never will again). I am very proud to not contribute any $$$$ to this cancer anymore......though I have heard that advertisement sales are now including eyeballs from illegal streams in their pricing estimates, so they may be getting a few pennies out of people like me unfortunately from ad revenue, but it ain't much.

The whole thing has been poisoned and become very uninteresting, very quicky.

If the gambling trend had not gone parabolic across the country, college athletics would be in dire straits right now in my opinion. It's a shame and very frustrating to see the gambling trend further enable their greediness and poisonous behaviors. Hopefully the luster of gambling wears off soon and the grow-at-all-costs attitude will catch up quick to these cesspool managers along with a collapse in revenue.

 

[ewglenn]

Won't happen but I believe it's less about ego and more about alignment in a different sense. Some schools have been together for decades. This would upset that. For example Western Michigan has been with Ohio and Miami since the 40s, which is longer than some of these schools have even existed.

And why would it make any sense for MT to be with Miami and Ohio instead of UAB and Troy?

Memphis - putting the obvious aside for a moment - makes no sense that they would be put with Jax St and South Alabama instead of MT. There are also all sorts of issues with the east and coastal but I digress.

Lastly, 8 teams has always been a problematic configuration for conferences, which is another reason why it would be flawed. You would be better off having four 16-team conferences where you can alleviate a lot of the clear issues with this proposal.

Look at a G5 team map and figure a better way to group every one of them based strictly on geography. That’s about the best you’ll be able to come up with I guarantee it. I didn’t look at what was best for each team, I looked at it based on what would be the best for the entire G5 to make what was being pitched work.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

EWGlenn's idea is best regionally, but I think it would make for too many games to be played. Make the G5 a G4. 4 conf of 16 teams, each with 4 pods. Playoff is 4 teams. So that's 15 games before starting the CFP. There are currently 63 G5 teams. (Not counting Wazzu or OSU, who knows what they are right now) so 1 would have to be added. Would be nice to kick a few back to FCS but we all know that won't happen. I personally see the conferences remaining mainly intact with a few changes and see CUSA essentially merging with someone.

And that is where this gets tough.

With the FSU/Clemson/ACC mess, that conference could implode and many be left out. We all know the end game is a settlement but that will open the door for others. Will the ACC add more and a G5 implode? Will it collapse? Will some schools be forced to become our level? Way too many unknowns at this point.

While I 1000% support our own playoff for a CFP spot, we also don't want to lock ourselves in to something and get short changed. The end game is P2 then everyone else so to make this work no deals should go past the CFP contract.

If this is played right, it could lead to becoming the playoff for all teams not in the P2. I see them each going to about 20-24 teams and that'll be it. So of the 70 current P4 teams, there will be almost 30 left out. When they split (when not if), the B12/ACC remnants will need something.

But then what if only P2 football splits? Will the other sports work together to regionalize again? Just sooooooo many unknowns. Just remember wherever the most $ is and the least common sense is, that is where this will go.

 

[mtfblue]

they are already being short changed, they dropped the percentage to keep the payout low for the G5

 

[MidTennMtneer]

So I've gotten roasted for my take of this on X. Which honestly surprises me.

Those against this feel we are laying down and accepting we aren't in the same level. That we should at least have a chance.

Well I partly agree. We should have a chance. But we aren't the same as UGA or Michigan or Bama has been. And really few even Power teams are.

Right now our access to the CFP is improved over the 4 team, but our only chance in making it is being the highest ranked G5 champ. As we saw last year and before, that means going at worst 11-1 as a champ. Period.

With a playoff, we could make it at 9-3. Win our conf, win the G5 playoff, and boom. CFP spot. Heck, if they do it right and make it 4 conferences you could have 2 at large and give a non-champ a chance.

Honestly someone explain to me why that is a bad thing and how it is giving up on a chance?

I firmly believe it should be all FBS conf champs in the playoff, but that'll never happen. I'm beginning to think some sort of relegation is the only answer but that means splitting football off completely. So who knows.

But how is a G5 playoff "admitting defeat", when it actually will give more teams a chance at the CFP?

 

[MT01]

So I've gotten roasted for my take of this on X. Which honestly surprises me.

Those against this feel we are laying down and accepting we aren't in the same level. That we should at least have a chance.

Well I partly agree. We should have a chance. But we aren't the same as UGA or Michigan or Bama has been. And really few even Power teams are.

Right now our access to the CFP is improved over the 4 team, but our only chance in making it is being the highest ranked G5 champ. As we saw last year and before, that means going at worst 11-1 as a champ. Period.

With a playoff, we could make it at 9-3. Win our conf, win the G5 playoff, and boom. CFP spot. Heck, if they do it right and make it 4 conferences you could have 2 at large and give a non-champ a chance.

Honestly someone explain to me why that is a bad thing and how it is giving up on a chance?

I firmly believe it should be all FBS conf champs in the playoff, but that'll never happen. I'm beginning to think some sort of relegation is the only answer but that means splitting football off completely. So who knows.

But how is a G5 playoff "admitting defeat", when it actually will give more teams a chance at the CFP?

It probably won't improve chances. Going to limit regular season game so you can have a G5 playoff? What's the point of the G5 playoff unless it's a guaranteed spot in the big playoff? It's still going to be just one seat. G5 already has that without one.

If the P4/5 or whatever breaks off and forms their own entity then what's left will probably have its own playoff. Until or unless that happens there is no reason to be basically nudging them in that direction further. Why would we ever want a three or four loss team playing the #1 team in the nation in the CFP? Pretty much guarantees annihilation and gives fodder to why G5 shouldn't be in the playoff.

Schools like Boise, TCU, Cincy, etc are models all G5 should follow until we officially and formally restricted from access. Creating a playoff outside of THE playoff sends the wrong message.

 

[Brew_Raider]

 

[Brew_Raider]

I know these are not exactly G5 playoff related, but it explains how the gap is growing and why a G5 playoff/split is more likely.

 

[MidTennMtneer]

I know these are not exactly G5 playoff related, but it explains how the gap is growing and why a G5 playoff/split is more likely.

View embedded media

If that goes through even close to the first iteration of the settlement, there will be current P4 schools that will have to drop down. Many can't take that $20m/yr hit, and won't.

Another aspect of it is $10m more in extra scholarships for Olympic sports. That's $30m extra.

A lot of these schools have a budget of $100-$125m and are already on the low end budget and performance wise of their conferences. I think that is where the opt out variable is key in this. They are wanting to get rid of those lower current Power schools and this is the opportunity.

In my initial support of a G5 playoff I've talked with several people and even Group of Five Guys brought up a good point. No we as MT aren't UGA or UM, but neither are a good chunk of the P4. There are more P4 schools closer to us than to the top 10 or so teams.