These questions for "Palestinian supporters" will leave them speechless

[nashvillegoldenflash]

BBJ, the media repeatedly paints Israel as murderers so it's understandable that people who don't investigate the issue on their own are Palestine sympathizers. When you inevitably run into one of them, here are some questions to keep in your back pocket for them.
If you are so sure that "Palestine, the country, goes back through most of recorded history," I expect you to be able to answer a few basic questions about that country of Palestine :
When was it founded and by whom?
What were its borders?
What was its capital?
What were its major cities?
What constituted the basis of its economy?
What was its form of government?
Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?
Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?
What was the language of the country of Palestine ?
What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine ?
What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and tell what was the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan on that date.

And, finally, since there is no such country today, what caused its demise and when did it occur?
You are lamenting the "low sinking" of a "once proud" nation. Please tell me, when exactly was that "nation" proud and what was it so proud of?
And here is the least sarcastic question of all: If the people you mistakenly call "Palestinians" are anything but generic Arabs collected from all over -- or thrown out of -- the Arab world, if they really have a genuine ethnic identity that gives them right for self-determination, why did they never try to become independent until Arabs suffered their devastating defeat in the Six Day War?
I hope you avoid the temptation to trace the modern day "Palestinians" to the Biblical Philistines: substituting etymology for history won't work here.
The truth should be obvious to everyone who wants to know it. Arab countries have never abandoned the dream of destroying Israel ; they still cherish it today. Having time and again failed to achieve their evil goal with military means, they decided to fight Israel by proxy. For that purpose, they created a terrorist organization, cynically called it "the Palestinian people" and installed it in Gaza , Judea, and Samaria . How else can you explain the refusal by Jordan and Egypt to unconditionally accept back the "West Bank" and Gaza , respectively?
When you ask these questions the only thing you will hear are crickets. Have a great day my friend.



These short questions for “Palestine supporters”

 

[MTLynn]

Is it true that in 1947 all of the Rabbis were opposed to the creation of Israel because Jews are under oath of God from a prophecy of King Solomon not to return to the Holy Land?

If it is true then the world is being fed a lie concerning Israel and its right to exist.

 

[nashvillegoldenflash]

BBJ, what did I tell you. They can't answer any of the questions.

Chirp Chirp

 

[MTLynn]

Feel free to tell us the answers. I love information of all types.

That being said, if my question is true then your questions are irrelevant.
















This post was edited on 8/10 6:05 PM by MTLynn

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

Lynn,

I am not a Biblical Scholar but do a lot of study. You have to be careful about taking a prophecy or judgement and applying it to 2014. So many prophetic statements refer to a specific time or specific group of people in a very specific time. I have never heard of the reference you are referring too, it may be there but is not a central theme of the study of Solomon' s reign or a key point that these scriptures are trying to communicate.

So many times, modern peoples want to apply their current situation and somehow inject into an event that happened in OT times...We don't know what God's intention is for the "nation" of Israel during these days. Neither do these Rabbi's that your referring too - its just not in scripture. So just because someone who claims to be religious says something doesn't make it so.


Let me give you an example...I live in Maine, actually moved up here to help plant an evangelical church. We had a guy in to do some drywall work after we had a flood in the basement of the church...he is Catholic. We all left to run some errands when we returned we found the worker outside and upset. He was mad at us, he said his priest told him to NEVER be alone inside our building - that we worshiped the devil and a false Gospel. I was dumbfounded, no stunned. Why would a Priest tell him that? Where would he get this idea? This led to a discussion and a presentation of the Gospel - he had never heard basic Bible before, never. To most, we and the Catholic faith are close, yet the truth is a lot of lies are taught.

Meanwhile, Israel has as much right to exist as us...like most place, people used force to create a border - a technique used throughout history. And since the opposing sides have tried multiple times to invade and destroy the place and they still stand gives them every right as of today to exist.

I am not picking a side here, but the winners of wars - The British in this case earned the right to do what they wanted. And the Israeli people have defended that for almost 70 years.



This post was edited on 8/11 1:22 PM by Blueraider_Mike

 

[MTLynn]

Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss is making the statement. I'm asking is it true?

He claims that it was the view that Jews held since the temple in Jerusalem fell 2000 years ago. He claims that in 1947 the Rabbinical authority tried to stop the formation of Israel and requested that Jerusalem be left under protection of the UN and remain an international zone.

I've linked an interview below with Rabbi Weiss making these statements.

Jews Against Zionism And Rothschilds

 

[nashvillegoldenflash]

To answer the questions I posed, Palestine was named such, 2,000 years ago, following the Roman occupation, destruction of the Second Temple and victory over Jewish revolts. The Romans, attempting to change the identity of the land area, called Jerusalem 'Aliea Capitalina' after a god of Jupiter, and Judea was changed to 'Palestine.' However, this was the name of a land area -- not of a people. There has never been a 'Palestinian people,' as such and there was never a 'Palestinian' culture, heritage, language, homeland, leadership, parliament, king or anything else to give them national standing.

With respect to Rabbi Weiss, I honestly don't know if he is lying or not. However, the following offers some doubt as to the credibility of his position regarding Zionism.



Orthodox position on Zionism, based on a literal form of midrash (biblical interpretation). Citing to Tractate Kesubos 111a of the Talmud Teitelbaum states that God and the Jewish people exchanged three oaths at the time of the Jews' exile from ancient Israel:

1. That the Jewish people would not ascend to the Holy Land as a group using force;

2. That the Jewish people would not rebel against the governments of countries in which they lived (they are safer this way);

3. That the Jewish people would not, by their sins, prolong the coming of the Jewish Messiah.

Jewish anti-Zionists somehow really believe they are supposed to stay in exile, until some moment when the Messiah comes first, obviously to an Arab state, since they are not there, cleans out the place, and then it is safe to return home. They have not read their own Bibles. They think the Messiah, not God, will re-gather the Jews to Israel.

I personally do not believe such a conversation between God and the Jews occurred. Reasons:

1. When an invading army is coming in to kill you, there is no time for a discussion with anyone, including God. Since Israel was being punished for idolatry at the time, it is not reasonable that they were communing with the real God over anything.

2.. Also, since God has at many times told the Jewish people to fight for their land, it is inconsistent for God to change his mind, and tell them not to use necessary force to defend Israel.

3. Their sins have not prolonged the coming of the Messiah as much as their unbelief. Jesus said his return would be dependent upon their calling upon the name of the true God Yahweh. Also, he also predicted the Messianic redemption would only come after they were dispersed again, and then re-gathered in the end times to form the Jewish state of Israel again (prophesy of the fig tree). So to oppose the re-gathering of the exiles is to defy God's plan to restore Israel. According to prophecies, the Branch, the Messiah, will come to save Judah from its enemies. He cannot do this, if they are not there…!!!!!

4. In the Bible, there is NO place that says it is the Messiah, not God Almighty, that re-gathers the Jews to Israel. Every place it mentions the ingathering, God is speaking Himself, about what HE will do. Again, according to prophecies, the Branch, the Messiah, will come to save Judah from its enemies. He cannot do this if they are not there already…!!!!!

Western world, opposition to Zionism has often focused on the United Kingdom since it was the UK's decision to create a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

The decision was controversial from the start as some British people believed the Balfour declaration undermined Britain's relationship with Muslims in the Middle East and India. Of course, Arab oil is important. People sell their souls and let innocent people die for it. When your nation, as a whole, has turned its back on God, then you will be open for every kind of evil and deception. You will become a fool, and a tool for Satan to use.

Racism was widespread at this time and many racists regarded British support for Jews or Zionists as undesirable. Between 1919 and 1939 the British government steadily reduced its support for Zionism. In 1939 Britain formally announced its intention to create an Arab state in the whole of Palestine, ending its support for the Balfour declaration.

There was little opposition to Zionism in other countries but as Arab states became independent the desire to maintain positive relations with Arab states has often affected attitudes to Zionism.

Although supporting the creation of Israel, from 1949 onwards, Communist countries adopted increasingly anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic positions.

Anti-Zionist Jews know this is anti-Semitism, and has nothing to do with Israel defending itself against the Palestinians.

But they have chosen to play it safe by going along with it, and pretending it is ok. They want to follow the practice of appeasement and submission to gain acceptance, and avoid persecution. But when they do this, they advocate the persecution of their fellow Jews.

Message to anti-Zionist Jews:

Put away oral traditions before they get you killed. God is a Zionist.

Read your prophets.

Read the original prophesies.

Stop making fools of yourselves. Quit the self?flagellation and masochism, and get some guts.

The remnant is predicted to be strong, not weak, in the face of its enemies. Zechariah describes the leaders of Judah as a firepan in a woodpile, like a fiery torch in the sheeves. The people will be like a fortified bronze wall (Jer 16). They will fight the enemies, and they will prevail. There is no slave mentality here.

Stop kissing the feet of your enemies.

Stop making a fool of Hashem, Yahweh, your God, and making him look like he is contradicting Himself.

Even Christians understand end time events predicted by your prophets better than you do.

You want to be accepted and not destroyed by your enemies. You know appeasement has NEVER worked in your history with your enemies. Appeasement empowers them over you. Look at just the past 2000 years of appeasement with civil authorities. All the Jews ever did was suffer and die.

Get the message that God has been speaking to you for 4000 years………. trust and serve God, not man!!!!!

Anti-Zionism

 

[nashvillegoldenflash]

Blueraider_Mike, I want you to know I appreciate your spirituality and support of Israel. You are absolutely correct that Israel has every right to exist. It's sad that so many people don't seem to understand this. That is why Netanyahu has to remind the world of this almost everyday (see link).

Important message that the world needs to hear

 

[MTLynn]

Originally posted by Blueraider_Mike:
Israel has as much right to exist as us...like most place, people used force to create a border - a technique used throughout history. And since the opposing sides have tried multiple times to invade and destroy the place and they still stand gives them every right as of today to exist.

From a military standpoint, yes, Israel has a right to be a nation but this discussion is about a religious right to build a nation.

I've linked a page with quotes from Rabbis around the world. One of many quotes:

"The evil group, conspiracy of the wicked, known as the "Zionists" deny the coming of the messiah, the holiness of the Holy Land and all the promises of the holy Torah and prophets who teach us that the future redemption will be supernatural and above human understanding, as it is written, "No eye but Yours, O G-d, saw what You will do for those who wait for You" (Isaiah 64:4). And they want to take away from the Jewish people their simple faith and give them instead the false contention that everything will happen naturally, G-d forbid, and we need to buy land in Palestine and learn agricultural techniques, in order to be farmers and vine keepers. To them, that is the long-awaited end, and they attempt to teach us the right way to reach it. Anyone with a G-d-fearing heart knows that all their words and lies are against G-d and His holy Torah. (Hagadah Divrei Binah)" - Rabbi Simcha Bunim Sofer, author of Shevet Sofer, rabbi of Pressburg (1843-1906)

The 130 Year Record of Religious Jewish Opposition

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

I actually don't disagree with what he is saying, sort of...this section of Isaiah really is the beginning of Israel hardening their hearts against God - which is what God says would happen in the Old Testament. Ultimately Israel has a "heart" issue and not a nation issue. I am sure there are different camps within the Jewish faith. The Rabbi is trying to get them to rely on God's grace, its always been grace that saves - to put their faith in God, not in lands - in eternal things, not temporal things. Again he is right on this theme. But that point is moot. The OT and the NT doesn't speak to what will happen to the "nation" of Israel in the 21st Century any more than it mentions the nation of "USA". This section on Isaiah is NOT declaring that it is wrong to have a Jewish nation. Its talking about how God is judging them by the gradual judgement of hardening their hearts - God for his own purposes wanted it that way.

Again, I realize many Jews will try to use scripture to either claim a right or not for Israel to exist in 2014. But I am telling you they are speculating because the Bible (OT and NT) is not clear on this particular issue.

So back to 1947, the British draw the lines and the country of Israel has defended those lines. I guess Hamas has a "right" to attack them, but they and their people need to accept the consequences. If I was Israel, I would steam roll the west bank, this will not end until they are defeated and then it won't really end but they might have a few years of peace. The issue here isn't Israel, but the fact that the Arabs around them want to destroy them. There is not some deep conspiracy here, its just sin and hate. I am sure there are some bad guys on the Jewish side, but nothing new to see here. JMHO.

 

[MTLynn]

Linked below is the testimony submitted in person to the United Nations Special Committee in Palestine Wednesday, July 16, 1947 by the Chief Rabbis of the Jewish Community, Rav Yosef Zvi Dushinsky and Rav Zelig Ruven Bengis.

Chief Rabbis Testimony July 16, 1947

 

[RandallThomason]

Personally I think the Bible teaches that under the New Covenant, the "new Israel" is a spiritual kingdom, and that God's chosen people are no longer a physical race but rather a spiritual race.

Galatians 3:28-29 and Romans 9:8, among others, would be primary verses dealing with this context.

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

Originally posted by RandallThomason:
Personally I think the Bible teaches that under the New Covenant, the "new Israel" is a spiritual kingdom, and that God's chosen people are no longer a physical race but rather a spiritual race.

Galatians 3:28-29 and Romans 9:8, among others, would be primary verses dealing with this context.

The OT teaches the same...Its always been about "wholehearted" faith...yes there were blessings of many decedents and lands, but its always been about spiritual faith. You know the lands in the OT, God said they were theirs...but there were people groups that already lived there. So by Faith they had to wage war in many cases outnumbered. The one's, such as Caleb, would be completely obedient and God would "enable" him to win. Other, not so much..

The OT points toward Jesus and future, the NT interprets the OT. It really fits like a glove. I have been studying the OT in detail and am amazed at what I am learning.

To the Rabbi's and other Jewish teachers I think in many cases they read/believe things that just are not there. I haven't watched the video's that Lynn is posting but will and come back and comment.