Remove CNM at Seasons End - No Further Data Needed

[MT01]

Here’s somperspective.


Over CNMs three seasons, it’s currently costing MT $140,000 per D1 win.

By comparison over Kermit’s last three seasons, it cost the school $25,000 per win.

The context of this next nugget might even be worse. We’re paying CNM $15,000 more per game to lose than we paid Kermit to win.

Retaining him this season was a no brainer because contractually we would still owe him the entire remainder of his contract if termination occurs prior to March 24 of this year. After March 23, he is only due 50% of the remainder which would only be $575,000 assuming it’s just the base and not the add ons (e.g. media compensation).

At the end of the season, there isn’t a single reason or bit of rationale to keep this guy, therefore the university should announce the termination of the contract effective March 24 at the end of the season.

 

[MT01]

By this season’s end, CNM’s three seasons will be responsible for three of the five worst seasons in the past 50 years.

 

[MTBig Blue]

By this season’s end, CNM’s three seasons will be responsible for three of the five worst seasons in the past 50 years.

That's pretty telling.

 

[dukewayne]

Today's game highlighted again that he has actually brought to campus some high quality players. In my opinion, it also continued to reveal that he is unable to effectively coach the team despite having some quality players.

It has taken until the middle of Jayce Johnson's junior year for the coaches to finally play him where he is naturally effective, the Small Forward slot. It was obvious in his first couple of games as a freshman he needed to play SF. He is a great fit on the wing, and he can even effectively play SG.

One might say position titles are becoming more useless. Fine. Jayce Johnson is a natural at attacking the basket from the wing. He is much more effective shooting from outside or driving to the rack.

It's just one of so many frustrations and failures.

 

[sWiley]

Agreed but I don’t think they want to shell out 600k for a buyout then have to hire a new coach, unless Kermit is available.

McDevitt will get a 4th year and possibly 5th with this clown Massaro who has a history for letting coaches hang too long. This season will be written off as covid and we will be doing this same song and dance next year.

 

[Raiders_55]

By this season’s end, CNM’s three seasons will be responsible for three of the five worst seasons in the past 50 years.

Simply, wow.

 

[MT01]

Simply, wow.

What’s worse is to consider that the other worst three-year period in this modern era over the past 50 years immediately followed the NCAA sanctions hammer that was dropped on us in the early 90s.

By contrast, CNM inherited a program that was a few weeks removed from a Top 25 ranking and one that had become somewhat of a media darling.

 

[raiderwolfy]

It would take a big booster to pay him or any other coach off. We don't have anyone like that.

 

[SigmaNuBlue]

By contrast, CNM inherited a program that was a few weeks removed from a Top 25 ranking and one that had become somewhat of a media darling.

Let me preface by saying I'm not defending the current state of the program, or CNM.

However, the roster CNM inherited was not a few weeks removed from a Top 25 ranking. Completely different team. For all intents and purposes, this is essentially his 2nd season. Furthermore, any gains made with guys who had to sit out last year, have been offset by Covid and injuries. Granted, all teams have to overcome those adversities. But, given our lack of dollars, no way he doesn't get another year.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

It would take a big booster to pay him or any other coach off. We don't have anyone like that.

1) Reassign him to Cope as “Assistant to the President”
2) Name Rick Insell as Interim MBB Coach to salvage the season with actual coaching for this talent.
3) Let Matt, Kim and Nina take the reins for the women to finish the season.

Hopefully he’ll resign and if not, let SM pay CNM’s salary out of HIS Cope cost center since he reportedly made the hire to begin with.

 

[JohnDavidBlue]

I fully expect CNMto stay during the contract duration.

it is so important to make a good hire with that many zeros and job security.

 

[sWiley]

Let me preface by saying I'm not defending the current state of the program, or CNM.

However, the roster CNM inherited was not a few weeks removed from a Top 25 ranking. Completely different team. For all intents and purposes, this is essentially his 2nd season. Furthermore, any gains made with guys who had to sit out last year, have been offset by Covid and injuries. Granted, all teams have to overcome those adversities. But, given our lack of dollars, no way he doesn't get another year.

This will be the exact excuses and internal rationalizations made to convince themselves and others that CNM deserves another year despite clear evidence that he's way in his over head and doesn't have anywhere near what it takes to win big at this level.

The reality is, MT has not faced any extreme hardships when compared to any other program in the country. Countless programs have undergone similar roster turnovers and came out just fine. And every single program in the country is dealing with COVID. So I don't wanna hear it. This dude just sucks. He wasn't put in some huge disadvantageous situation that is unique to him. Not even close.....so please stop trying to spin it that way.

Serious question, which D1 basketball programs have lost more games than MT since CNM took over? Statistically speaking we have to be one of the worst programs in the country over the last 3 seasons.

I'm sorry, but falling off a cliff THAT hard is just not acceptable.

 

[SigmaNuBlue]

I'm not trying to spin anything...just posting what will be, IMO, the message from MC regarding CNM getting another year.

 

[sWiley]

I'm not trying to spin anything...just posting what will be, IMO, the message from MC regarding CNM getting another year.

Yeah I know, my comment was more directed towards them.

We've seen enough with regards to CNM, and everyone knows it. I suspect even CNM knows it at this point.

He's just not ready for this level. Maybe one day he will be, but I don't want to sit around and go through a decade of single digit win seasons while this guy learns on the job.

He needs to go back to the Big South and get better there. Maybe win some post season tournament games in the NIT, CIT, etc. and actually dominate his conference for an extended period of time and learn what it takes to win at the next level.

He's just not innovative enough on offense and really defense too. Our intensity has really picked up but we havn't done anything fancy on defense like we did with Kermit where we would routinely win games just BECAUSE of our defense.

He just seems to have so much to learn from a coaching standpoint, which I guess is expected considering how young he is and the fact that he really hasn't been a head coach for very long. Our dumb administrators have no one to blame but themselves for this hire. This guy wasn't proven at all, came from one of the worst conferences in D1, and never even really had much success at Asheville......

He's got plenty of talent on the roster but he just has no answers when it comes to setting his team up for success. Same failed offensive game plan night in, night out. Hero ball, awful shooting, complete collapses when the chips are on the table. All signs of a terribly coached team. When's the last time you saw this team get an easy basket from an out of bounds play ?

This guy just aint it yall. He is a top 5 paid G5 coach in the country (think about that for a second....THINK ABOUT THAT!!!!) and is getting coached in circles by nearly everyone we face....

Only with our awful, inept administrators could such a thing occur, and continue to be allowed.

 

[dukewayne]

I'm sick of it all too. In all likelihood they will keep him. I'm tired of their's and even CNM's excuses. Despite the spin and rationalizations for why he will stay, it will really be because of gross incompetence and/or a just don't care attitude that he will stay.

 

[MTTim]

Yeah I know, my comment was more directed towards them.

We've seen enough with regards to CNM, and everyone knows it. I suspect even CNM knows it at this point.

He's just not ready for this level. Maybe one day he will be, but I don't want to sit around and go through a decade of single digit win seasons while this guy learns on the job.

He needs to go back to the Big South and get better there. Maybe win some post season tournament games in the NIT, CIT, etc. and actually dominate his conference for an extended period of time and learn what it takes to win at the next level.

He's just not innovative enough on offense and really defense too. Our intensity has really picked up but we havn't done anything fancy on defense like we did with Kermit where we would routinely win games just BECAUSE of our defense.

He just seems to have so much to learn from a coaching standpoint, which I guess is expected considering how young he is and the fact that he really hasn't been a head coach for very long. Our dumb administrators have no one to blame but themselves for this hire. This guy wasn't proven at all, came from one of the worst conferences in D1, and never even really had much success at Asheville......

He's got plenty of talent on the roster but he just has no answers when it comes to setting his team up for success. Same failed offensive game plan night in, night out. Hero ball, awful shooting, complete collapses when the chips are on the table. All signs of a terribly coached team. When's the last time you saw this team get an easy basket from an out of bounds play ?

This guy just aint it yall. He is a top 5 paid G5 coach in the country (think about that for a second....THINK ABOUT THAT!!!!) and is getting coached in circles by nearly everyone we face....

Only with our awful, inept administrators could such a thing occur, and continue to be allowed.

After 15 years

 

[MTTim]

After 15 years

After 15 years you could say the same about out FB coach.

 

[MT01]

This is a make or break moment for me. I’ve put thousands and thousands of dollars into this school not to mention all the time and dedication. The bullshit that happened in football two seasons ago when we demanded changed, Massaro promised it, and then spat in our faces talking about what good shape things were in and no changes were needed sent me to the exits. I have continued to follow but haven’t stepped foot on the campus since and reduced my giving to virtually nothing.

But if they keep this clown past March 24, I’m done for good. Including this board. I will wash my hands completely. I know that will make some of y’all happy, but I’m not going to keep being a party to gross incompetence, mismanagement, and dereliction of duty. I have to draw the line, and March 24 is it for me. MT needs me more than I need MT and these bozos have never understood that.

 

[BlueAlpha]

Here’s somperspective.


Over CNMs three seasons, it’s currently costing MT $140,000 per D1 win.

By comparison over Kermit’s last three seasons, it cost the school $25,000 per win.

The context of this next nugget might even be worse. We’re paying CNM $15,000 more per game to lose than we paid Kermit to win.

Retaining him this season was a no brainer because contractually we would still owe him the entire remainder of his contract if termination occurs prior to March 24 of this year. After March 23, he is only due 50% of the remainder which would only be $575,000 assuming it’s just the base and not the add ons (e.g. media compensation).

At the end of the season, there isn’t a single reason or bit of rationale to keep this guy, therefore the university should announce the termination of the contract effective March 24 at the end of the season.

Not quibbling with your numbers, as I haven’t read the fine print. I recall his contract was 5 years, and am 99% sure he got the almost automatic one-year roll over after year one. Which in that scenario means he has 3 years left after this one, which is year 3. So, regardless of whether the media comp, etc., is part of the buyout, won‘t it cost MT just under $2 million to get rid of him? Walking around $$$ for well heeled programs, an almost insurmountable hill for schools like ours to climb.

 

[sWiley]

Not quibbling with your numbers, as I haven’t read the fine print. I recall his contract was 5 years, and am 99% sure he got the almost automatic one-year roll over after year one. Which in that scenario means he has 3 years left after this one, which is year 3. So, regardless of whether the media comp, etc., is part of the buyout, won‘t it cost MT just under $2 million to get rid of him? Walking around $$$ for well heeled programs, an almost insurmountable hill for schools like ours to climb.

How does going 11-21 kick in an automatic extension ? On what planet would an AD offer such a low bar ?

And CNM will be lucky to reach 5 wins in year 3. How can an AD justify keeping a coach when results are getting worse with each passing year and the team looks like a circus on the court?

I really hope everyone here has pulled every red cent of funding from this university.

Every red cent.

 

[MT01]

Not quibbling with your numbers, as I haven’t read the fine print. I recall his contract was 5 years, and am 99% sure he got the almost automatic one-year roll over after year one. Which in that scenario means he has 3 years left after this one, which is year 3. So, regardless of whether the media comp, etc., is part of the buyout, won‘t it cost MT just under $2 million to get rid of him? Walking around $$$ for well heeled programs, an almost insurmountable hill for schools like ours to climb.

If there was an extension in there I definitely missed that. What freaking morons. What was the extension for, because I was looking at the contract that was signed in 2019. It shows end date of 2023.

Anyway, assuming there was a year added, keep in mind it’s still a 50% reduction after March 23, so that would be $862,500 not almost $2M. That’s an extra guarantee added to the football schedule. Doesn’t change my view.

 

[RaiderDawg78]

His contract ends June 30, 2024. He is number 57

 

[dukewayne]

You know I may have had reservations once CNM was in charge. I don't regret giving another human being the benefit of the doubt. I essentially gave him a Mulligan on that disaster of a first season.

It was at Murray St in the wreck of his 2nd season that pretty much convinced me that CNM had some huge problems in coaching. It was in that game where it was so obvious that the players as a whole weren't giving good effort. That is when he really lost my confidence.

Despite all that, I was willing and open to allow myself to be won over this season since he virtually replaced the roster. The new players have size, athleticism, and potential. Other than a few isolated incidents with only a few players, the players this season overall have given good effort. Almost in spite of the direction of things. All of that has only made CNM's coaching weaknesses more glaring.

There is a big lack of discipline regarding the running of any coherent offensive or defensive system. Strength & Conditioning is abysmal. There appears to be no toughness instilled in the team. I could go on. It all appears so obvious. CNM just isn't ready for this level of competition. Maybe hero ball worked in the Big South when you have a few high level recruits on your roster. In C-USA, most teams are getting high level or high quality recruits. CNM seems like a good guy, and I had hoped someone like him could make it work.

Whatever the case, McPhee will likely do nothing but watch the program be run into the ground. If Massaro had any self-respect, he would resign. Being cucked by McPhee ain't much of a way of making a living.

 

[sWiley]

His contract ends June 30, 2024. He is number 57

Outside of the AAC (which used to be a power conference and basically still is and pays their coaches as such), only 5 other G5 coaches make more than CNM and 2 of those coaches are barely above him at 766k and 775k (CNM makes 750k).

We are paying this man for top shelf results and not even sniffing them.

And if his contract ends in 2024 that's 3 more years. I have a hard time seeing Massaro pay this man almost $1 million to walk away. It's so much easier to blame covid and let him come back for another single digit win season.

 

[BlueAlpha]

If there was an extension in there I definitely missed that. What freaking morons. What was the extension for, because I was looking at the contract that was signed in 2019. It shows end date of 2023.

Anyway, assuming there was a year added, keep in mind it’s still a 50% reduction after March 23, so that would be $862,500 not almost $2M. That’s an extra guarantee added to the football schedule. Doesn’t change my view.

Dude, I’m not arguing with you! Was trying to understand the $$$. It’s almost universally understood every major college football & basketball coach has 3-5 years on their contract, otherwise other schools supposedly use it against them for recruiting purposes. If CMD has 3 years left on his contract, which seems to be case, what’s the buyout to MT. All I was trying to understand.

 

[Predarat]

How the hell did he get an extension? Did 7woodSid decide a .500 record was too challenging so "lets move that down to .250"

 

[RaiderDawg78]

How the hell did he get an extension? Did 7woodSid decide a .500 record was too challenging so "lets move that down to .250"

It’s another super quite extension like TF and SS got in football. And with our non-existent “beat” writer at the time, no one asked questions.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

Nothing they do surprises me anymore. The “all is well” speeches have become the standard. I hate it but there’s nothing more I can do but withhold donations and purchases until they are all gone.

 

[amgtmom]

Not quibbling with your numbers, as I haven’t read the fine print. I recall his contract was 5 years, and am 99% sure he got the almost automatic one-year roll over after year one. Which in that scenario means he has 3 years left after this one, which is year 3. So, regardless of whether the media comp, etc., is part of the buyout, won‘t it cost MT just under $2 million to get rid of him? Walking around $$$ for well heeled programs, an almost insurmountable hill for schools like ours to climb.

Yes he did get another year after completing year one. So he has 3 years remaining.

 

[MT01]

Dude, I’m not arguing with you! Was trying to understand the $$$. It’s almost universally understood every major college football & basketball coach has 3-5 years on their contract, otherwise other schools supposedly use it against them for recruiting purposes. If CMD has 3 years left on his contract, which seems to be case, what’s the buyout to MT. All I was trying to understand.

Not sure what your issue is with my post.

Like I said if there was some sort of auto extension I missed it. So using the premise that an extra year had been added I updated the buyout totals.

 

[blueraiderJT]

I've said all of this after watching him coach 3 games back in 2018. You know when someone doesn't have it. The lack of fundamentals, discipline, ball distribution, and defense is 100% coaching. After 3 seasons, it hasn't changed at all.

Grensing must be laughing his a$$ off right now. He knew thing would go nuclear when they foolishly didn't hire him to be the HC. Massaro will not do the right thing here. He has no backbone. We'll get a new coach in 2027.

 

[amgtmom]

I've said all of this after watching him coach 3 games back in 2018. You know when someone doesn't have it. The lack of fundamentals, discipline, ball distribution, and defense is 100% coaching. After 3 seasons, it hasn't changed at all.

Grensing must be laughing his a$$ off right now. He knew thing would go nuclear when they foolishly didn't hire him to be the HC. Massaro will not do the right thing here. He has no backbone. We'll get a new coach in 2027.

No one is laughing their a$$ off. There is much disappointment from previous players who invested in the build of program and staff too. CNM had no way of knowing how fragile the infrastructure in department was and is. Only now people are realizing truly how much KD invested tirelessly. The real challenge is what do we do from here?

 

[RaiderDawg78]

No one is laughing their a$$ off. There is much disappointment from previous players who invested in the build of program and staff too. CNM had no way of knowing how fragile the infrastructure in department was and is. Only now people are realizing truly how much KD invested tirelessly. The real challenge is what do we do from here?

Sadly, until Massaro and McPhee are gone, we are stuck relying on catching lightening in a bottle.

 

[blueraiderJT]

No one is laughing their a$$ off. There is much disappointment from previous players who invested in the build of program and staff too. CNM had no way of knowing how fragile the infrastructure in department was and is. Only now people are realizing truly how much KD invested tirelessly. The real challenge is what do we do from here?

Grensing like anyone has some self pride. He was treated awfully by Massaro. It's karma and if I were him, I wouldn't be shedding tears. Massaro knew exactly what he was doing and he brought in his guy knowing it would fall down. Massaro's ego and cognitive dissodence wouldn't let him do the right thing then and he won't start making good decisions now.

 

[SpaceRaider]

The real challenge is what do we do from here?

Well witnessing the last six or seven years of Massaro and McPhee, I would say Inaction is their fallback position

 

[crposton]

Grensing like anyone has some self pride. He was treated awfully by Massaro. It's karma and if I were him, I wouldn't be shedding tears. Massaro knew exactly what he was doing and he brought in his guy knowing it would fall down. Massaro's ego and cognitive dissodence wouldn't let him do the right thing then and he won't start making good decisions now.

Are you saying that Massaro hired McDevitt knowing he would fail and that is what he wanted? That is some next level conspiracy theory. What about the many reports that Massaro wanted Odom and it was McPhee who wanted McDevitt?

 

[MT01]

McDevitt wasn’t even Massaro hire. He wanted Odom. Had Odom. This one is on McPhee. Well except if there was somehow an extra year given to CNM.

 

[blueraiderJT]

Are you saying that Massaro hired McDevitt knowing he would fail and that is what he wanted? That is some next level conspiracy theory. What about the many reports that Massaro wanted Odom and it was McPhee who wanted McDevitt?

McDevitt wasn’t even Massaro hire. He wanted Odom. Had Odom. This one is on McPhee. Well except if there was somehow an extra year given to CNM.

Which was my point. He knew CNM wasn't the dude he wanted and went with CNM anyway instaead of having a spine and getting Grensing. FTD

 

[blueraiderJT]

Are you saying that Massaro hired McDevitt knowing he would fail and that is what he wanted? That is some next level conspiracy theory. What about the many reports that Massaro wanted Odom and it was McPhee who wanted McDevitt?

Massaro wanted Odom and went with CNM after he couldn't get anyone else while Grensing was just sitting there. Hi pride wouldn't let him go back to Greg like he should have done in the first place. Massaro had no proof that CNM would work either. Now we are stuck. How's that conspiracy? FTD

 

[blueraiderJT]

Well witnessing the last six or seven years of Massaro and McPhee, I would say Inaction is their fallback position

That's their gameplan.