North Texas

[dukewayne]

On the topic of MT BB and attendance, it is a subject more complicated and nuanced than simply MT had success and did not sellout many games. I think most on this board would agree that a sellout for every game would be great. Considering MT's bball past and the current trends nationally with college bball, MT had a heck of a good run in growing good attendance. Considering MT was stuck for years where 2500 was too high a threshold to achieve for most games, 6500 while the national trend is downward is still pretty darn good.

Just a few factors of many to consider:

There are hardly any programs in this area that will fill their arena while football is still ongoing. Louisville and Kentucky may be the nearest exceptions. A handful of years ago, MT went to this shortened semester thing. With school starting a couple of weeks later, the students aren't even around for the first few conference home games in most seasons now. It used to be that the students would be back on campus about the same time conference play would start. Maybe one game would be a few days earlier than the first day of classes. These factors contribute substantially to MT bball getting off to a somewhat slow start with attendance.

With MT's success and as conference play would get going, attendance typically would pick up to good levels for MT. Differing games and circumstances would factor into just how big the crowds would be. The NIT game vs Minn comes to mind as a big game that nearly sold out with only that season of big success. Of course, the last couple of home games of this past season were downright incredible for crowd size and atmosphere. While MT choked at the close of the season, the huge crowds with great energy on national tv sure did get a lot of attention from national college bball media.

The examples of many types of factors are too numerous here. Ultimately, some perspective regarding even 6,000 to 7,000 in attendance for run of the mill home games at MT can be an outstanding level of attendance. Combine that with about 10,000 or even occasional sellouts for big/rivalry games is a position that most of the schools in the country outside the elite programs would be glad to have.

 

[SpaceRaider]

from the DRC:

UNT announces $3 million gift to athletics from McNatt family

 

[FranklinRaider315]

Their AD, Wren Baker is a fund raising machine.

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

Their AD, Wren Baker is a fund raising machine.

Do you really believe that anyone could be a fund raising machine at MT? Sure maybe they incrementally could improve things but I am talking a major difference maker, is it possible here?

 

[MTLynn]

You've got to have a great product to get a lot of people interested in giving money...

Louisville was so bad they almost dropped the football program to 1AA before Howard Schnellenberger came in and turned them around.

 

[MT01]

As much money as there is in this area? Lord yes. Goodness the little middle mindset lives on.

 

[sWiley]

from the DRC:

UNT announces $3 million gift to athletics from McNatt family

so 1 family donated 3 mil?

did we collectively even raise 3 mil last year?

LOL

 

[Blueraider_Mike]

As much money as there is in this area? Lord yes. Goodness the little middle mindset lives on.

Yes there is money but it is not and never has come to MT. So what would it take?

 

[MTOleBlue]

Yes there is money but it is not and never has come to MT. So what would it take?

A change in leadership.

 

[MTFNBY5]

You folks who are so sure there is so much money just sitting there to be given to the athletic program:

Name one business in the area with a huge advertising budget that hasn't already been asked (are you sure?) and will give if we only make the contact,

Name one, just one, MT alumni who is a fan of MT athletics (I would bet you can't name 5 alumni who are multi-millionaires - much less have the ability to donate millions) and would make a difference if he/she were just convinced to contribute,

Name a few businesses outside of Davidson Co. (other than Bridgestone, Nissan, Cracker Barrel and State Farm) in the mid-state who would make a significant difference if their entire ad. budget was given to the athletic department,

Name a couple of heavy-hitters who are just waiting for (name one) McPhee, Massaro, or Stockstill to retire.

Additionally, tell us all how to solicit donations without a substantial amount being spent on fund-raising, money it's clear we don't have.

If you can answer any of these questions I'm sure the PTB in Cope and Murphy will be more than glad to listen.

 

[sWiley]

Not my job to do those things. If Massaro can't hack it then get out of the way and give someone else a chance. Every university faces unique obstacles and we are no different.

And with regards to money....sometimes money isn't the answer to everything. Look at FAU after they made the right hire. Look at all the great hires Arkansas State made and the results they got. Troy's hiring of Neal Brown was genius....look what they are up to. WKU has graduated many coaches to P5 jobs and already owns 2 conference titles....None of them schools have higher budgets than we do yet look at their results....

There are plenty of schools who do more with less. We are not one of them.

 

[crposton]

You folks who are so sure there is so much money just sitting there to be given to the athletic program:

Name one business in the area with a huge advertising budget that hasn't already been asked (are you sure?) and will give if we only make the contact,

Name one, just one, MT alumni who is a fan of MT athletics (I would bet you can't name 5 alumni who are multi-millionaires - much less have the ability to donate millions) and would make a difference if he/she were just convinced to contribute,

Name a few businesses outside of Davidson Co. (other than Bridgestone, Nissan, Cracker Barrel and State Farm) in the mid-state who would make a significant difference if their entire ad. budget was given to the athletic department,

Name a couple of heavy-hitters who are just waiting for (name one) McPhee, Massaro, or Stockstill to retire.

Additionally, tell us all how to solicit donations without a substantial amount being spent on fund-raising, money it's clear we don't have.

If you can answer any of these questions I'm sure the PTB in Cope and Murphy will be more than glad to listen.

The Adams Family (NHC) might be our biggest donors, but I do not know for sure. The Hendrix Stadium Club I believe came about because of a $1 million donation by that family. I would assume UNT has more deep pockets than we do because of the Oil & Gas industry, but I do not know. I do know we have $80-$100 million improvements to our athletic facilities we should all be excited about. Stock has been asking for this for years.

 

[crposton]

You folks who are so sure there is so much money just sitting there to be given to the athletic program:

Name one business in the area with a huge advertising budget that hasn't already been asked (are you sure?) and will give if we only make the contact,

Name one, just one, MT alumni who is a fan of MT athletics (I would bet you can't name 5 alumni who are multi-millionaires - much less have the ability to donate millions) and would make a difference if he/she were just convinced to contribute,

Name a few businesses outside of Davidson Co. (other than Bridgestone, Nissan, Cracker Barrel and State Farm) in the mid-state who would make a significant difference if their entire ad. budget was given to the athletic department,

Name a couple of heavy-hitters who are just waiting for (name one) McPhee, Massaro, or Stockstill to retire.

Additionally, tell us all how to solicit donations without a substantial amount being spent on fund-raising, money it's clear we don't have.

If you can answer any of these questions I'm sure the PTB in Cope and Murphy will be more than glad to listen.

I think our best bet is to get the alumni to donate small amounts. $150 by every alumnus in the Nashville area would be a little over $7 million per year. I know they do solicit money from me a lot because I have given, but I think a lot do not because they either do not give to sports or they are fans of other teams.

 

[crposton]

Not my job to do those things. If Massaro can't hack it then get out of the way and give someone else a chance. Every university faces unique obstacles and we are no different.

And with regards to money....sometimes money isn't the answer to everything. Look at FAU after they made the right hire. Look at all the great hires Arkansas State made and the results they got. Troy's hiring of Neal Brown was genius....look what they are up to. WKU has graduated many coaches to P5 jobs and already owns 2 conference titles....None of them schools have higher budgets than we do yet look at their results....

There are plenty of schools who do more with less. We are not one of them.

I agree that FAU definitely made the right hire, but a hire like that does not come around that often. I would disagree a little by saying we do not do more with less. Consistent bowl eligibility is not easy with our budget. Marshall, FAU, UNT, etc. have all had losing seasons recently when we have not. We just cannot seem to get over the hump and win a conference title. That is why I agree a change is probably necessary. I do want to wait to pass judgement on this season until after the FAU and Marshall games. If we win both of those we are in very good shape. I do not know that we will, but if we do I am confident we can make the conference title game. I think if Brent stayed healthy last year we would have been right in the mix. FAU looked pretty good tonight, but still got handled pretty well by the defending National Champs in UCF haha. All jokes aside I will wait to pass judgement on this season. From what I have seen so far we lost to two very good football teams with much bigger budgets and just better players.

 

[blueraiderJT]

I agree that FAU definitely made the right hire, but a hire like that does not come around that often. I would disagree a little by saying we do not do more with less. Consistent bowl eligibility is not easy with our budget. Marshall, FAU, UNT, etc. have all had losing seasons recently when we have not. We just cannot seem to get over the hump and win a conference title. That is why I agree a change is probably necessary. I do want to wait to pass judgement on this season until after the FAU and Marshall games. If we win both of those we are in very good shape. I do not know that we will, but if we do I am confident we can make the conference title game. I think if Brent stayed healthy last year we would have been right in the mix. FAU looked pretty good tonight, but still got handled pretty well by the defending National Champs in UCF haha. All jokes aside I will wait to pass judgement on this season. From what I have seen so far we lost to two very good football teams with much bigger budgets and just better players.

Great post!

 

[SpaceRaider]

I think our best bet is to get the alumni to donate small amounts. $150 by every alumnus in the Nashville area would be a little over $7 million per year. I know they do solicit money from me a lot because I have given, but I think a lot do not because they either do not give to sports or they are fans of other teams.

You have basically ten complete classes of young alumni that have graduated that have not experienced a championship/co-championship in football, and witnessing less and less student attendance in those years, it is obvious these students/now alumni, have little to no connection to their alma mater. Even in basketball, where we've had our best success ever the last 8 or 9 years, I don't see a lot of young alumni in the stands as season ticket holders. Do these young alumni even return to visit. It's like there is no brand identification or school pride among a huge percentage of these people.

If this community of Blue Raider fans are restless and unhappy with the continuing mediocre results on the field, then the attendance levels, revenue and donor levels which the are results of the athletic department efforts really are worse than the results on the field. Then you have the problem of the fellow in Cope who is seemingly content as this operation mucks along...

A complete sweep of leadership has a lot to recommend for itself. If this was a business where profits/progress are expected and demanded by stockholders, the whole leadership would be shown the door and escorted out by security.

 

[FranklinRaider315]

Do you really believe that anyone could be a fund raising machine at MT? Sure maybe they incrementally could improve things but I am talking a major difference maker, is it possible here?

I played against North Texas St in Denton TX back in ‘78. They played in an old stadium that was smaller than most high school stadiums in Texas today. It was nothing more than a commuter school for kids who didn’t get into Texas, TAMU, TCU et al “name schools”. If they can do it in a competitive market like Dallas, then yes, I believe MT can do it with the right leadership. We don’t have it.

I first met Wren back when we last defeated Memphis in the first year they opened the Stadium Club. He was Asst. AD at Memphis. Massaro brought him over while giving him a tour of the new facility. Wren told me he wanted to get former football players back in the fold at Memphis after many of us became apathetic because of the focus on Basketball for decades. I had started a game film conversion project to transfer a bunch of old color reels of footage to DVD from the 70’s Coach’s Shows that we had discovered and kept safe. Williamson and Pancoast years. Good years. Wren had Tom Bowen, the AD approve it and wrote me a check for half the conversion cost ($4,000). The rest was paid by the former players. That is how you stir up interest. Until then, I had quit going to Memphis games.

 

[RaiderDawg78]

You have basically ten complete classes of young alumni that have graduated that have not experienced a championship/co-championship in football, and witnessing less and less student attendance in those years, it is obvious these students/now alumni, have little to no connection to their alma mater. Even in basketball, where we've had our best success ever the last 8 or 9 years, I don't see a lot of young alumni in the stands as season ticket holders. Do these young alumni even return to visit. It's like there is no brand identification or school pride among a huge percentage of these people.

If this community of Blue Raider fans are restless and unhappy with the continuing mediocre results on the field, then the attendance levels, revenue and donor levels which the are results of the athletic department efforts really are worse than the results on the field. Then you have the problem of the fellow in Cope who is seemingly content as this operation mucks along...

A complete sweep of leadership has a lot to recommend for itself. If this was a business where profits/progress are expected and demanded by stockholders, the whole leadership would be shown the door and escorted out by security.

I agree with this 100%.

We need a complete change. We need a new president that is engaging and involved. We need an AD with higher expectations.

I have been on a campus when the old guard AD was moved out for a new energetic AD. It was an almost instantaneous expectation & student/alumni involvement. New coaches, attendance records, donation records, never before seen success.

I have been on campuses with presidents that were involved and just dynamic. Students knew her. She almost was the university. The energy was palpable.

Our leadership is too comfortable in their positions now. Too much little middle still lingering in leadership.

 

[MTFNBY5]

crposton: "I do know we have $80-$100 million improvements to our athletic facilities we should all be excited about. Stock has been asking for this for years."

The drawings are nice but have you seen any shovels in the ground? Seen a time-line for the improvements? Seen how the various improvements are to be funded? Seen the beginnings of a fund-raising effort for the first step?

I didn't think so. At the rate we go this plan won't be completed by 2030, if then.

 

[JohnDavidBlue]

Again, we had a tailgating army in the 2000s that donated to the BRAA and spent every Saturday on campus.

The answer now is “There is no excitement.”

Way past time for change.

 

[MTFNBY5]

You have basically ten complete classes of young alumni that have graduated that have not experienced a championship/co-championship in football, and witnessing less and less student attendance in those years, it is obvious these students/now alumni, have little to no connection to their alma mater. Even in basketball, where we've had our best success ever the last 8 or 9 years, I don't see a lot of young alumni in the stands as season ticket holders. Do these young alumni even return to visit. It's like there is no brand identification or school pride among a huge percentage of these people.

If this community of Blue Raider fans are restless and unhappy with the continuing mediocre results on the field, then the attendance levels, revenue and donor levels which the are results of the athletic department efforts really are worse than the results on the field. Then you have the problem of the fellow in Cope who is seemingly content as this operation mucks along...

A complete sweep of leadership has a lot to recommend for itself. If this was a business where profits/progress are expected and demanded by stockholders, the whole leadership would be shown the door and escorted out by security.

Space, you are so correct in that many students/alumni have absolutely no identification with the school. This is not a new problem but IMHO it is worse now than in ancient times when I was an undergrad. Although we were a suitcase college at least a large percentage of the student body and many alumni I knew (for a few years) came to HC if nothing else.

The issue is that being a regional public institution many students see MT similarly as they see the public high school to which they were zoned. The school is just something to be endured in order to get an education and follow their chosen career path. So many students at MT do not come to the school for the "college experience". IMHO this is a factor why the growth of the area and the school has not come with corresponding attendance at games.

And we all know MT alumni who are huge sports fans of other teams but never, truly never, attend a MT game while in school. I became a fan while at games, can't convert others to MT fans if you can't get them to a game.

This disconnect to the school shows not only in attendance at games but also in alumni giving. Wish I knew a solution.

 

[JohnDavidBlue]

I miss playing the mean green. I mean they were always circled on my yearly schedule.

 

[sWiley]

I miss playing the mean green. I mean they were always circled on my yearly schedule.

Better thank your lucky stars we do not play them this year and hopefully we avoid them next year too. They will be even better next year which is scary.

 

[sWiley]

No undefeated season for the Mean Green but man that program is on the right track. 30k+ for their game against La. Tech and no inflated numbers BS. The stadium looked sold out from the video I saw that Johnny quinn put on his Facebook.

Never seen a crowd even close to that size at an MT game. North Texas has really moved themselves forward with their new stadium and all their new facilities. Good for them.