Nailed it 5 Stayin' Alive!

RaiderDawg78

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General welfare is enumerated and in the preamble, no matter how much you quote Jefferson et al and the Supreme Court has ruled on it.
The Supreme Court has always gotten things correct, right? If Trump gets the chance to appoint 2 more justices during his tenure, you would still think all their decisions are correct?

I think local /state governments could do a better job than the federal government in welfare programs If that tax the money stayed local rather than going to the feds.

That’s it. Didn’t say no welfare programs. I said I would prefer local for federal.
 
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BlueRaiderFan

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The Supreme Court has always gotten things correct, right? If Trump gets the chance to appoint 2 more justices during his tenure, you would still think all their decisions are correct?

I think local /state governments could do a better job than the federal government in welfare programs If that tax the money stayed local rather than going to the feds.

That’s it. Didn’t say no welfare programs. I said I would prefer local for federal.
You said more than that, buddy.
 

RaiderDawg78

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You said more than that, buddy.
that healthcare should be at the state level? That welfare should be at the state level? That most social programs should be at the local level?

I do not want people from California, New York, Iowa, North Dakota, etc. telling TN what to do with its tax money. Tennessee is responsible for the people living in TN. I would like to decentralize a lot of federal programs.
 

BlueRaiderFan

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that healthcare should be at the state level? That welfare should be at the state level? That most social programs should be at the local level?

I do not want people from California, New York, Iowa, North Dakota, etc. telling TN what to do with its tax money. Tennessee is responsible for the people living in TN. I would like to decentralize a lot of federal programs.
Federal money goes into these programs, so it makes sense that they would have some input. Also, much of the decision making is left up to the state. The federal guidelines that I've seen are reasonable, so I don't see an issue with it.
 

RaiderDawg78

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Federal money goes into these programs, so it makes sense that they would have some input. Also, much of the decision making is left up to the state. The federal guidelines that I've seen are reasonable, so I don't see an issue with it.
the less federal influence the better for me. And this is coming from a fed.
 

RaiderDawg78

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The state is not some miracle worker. A huge system like these will always have issues, no matter who manages them.
I get that. Can a person just not have a philosophical difference of opinion that they would rather see social issues handled at the state/local level instead of federal and base it off of the constitution as written?
 

BlueRaiderFan

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These programs fall under an enumerated power. We are doing it as the constitution is written and I fail to understand why you are concerned about it either way, as one way is just as efficient as the other.
 

RaiderDawg78

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As I stated earlier, I do not want people from other states influencing the use of funding in TN. TN should be free to set up its own social programs as its elected representatives put into law. If people want expanded social programs in a state, then vote for it. I would prefer a federal govt of limited powers and more authors in social programs at the local and state levels.

And I disagree that we are doing it as the constitution was written. Congress passed early laws which moved toward a centralized govt that was supported by the Supreme Court as, “implied powers”, then though the many of the writers disagree that was the intent. Implied powers have been used time and time again, to the point we now debate the meaning of clauses and phrases in the constitution that seemed clearly written to the authors.

Long story short, when it comes to most domestic policy, I would prefer almost all domestic programs be decided on and funded at the local/state level and the federal govt never get involved.
 

BlueRaiderFan

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Yes, you and other conservatives would like to control things at the state level because that would often lead to either defunding the programs, or extreme budget cuts for those programs.
 

RaiderDawg78

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Yes, you and other conservatives would like to control things at the state level because that would often lead to either defunding the programs, or extreme budget cuts for those programs.
No, I would like the people in a given state to control the programs offered in that state. Allow the people of TN to vote for how their tax money is spent domestically, let the people of VT spend how they want, let California and New York spend as they like.

There are obvious domestic programs we need in TN. Tennesseans should be given the option to prioritize the funding of those programs as they vote and organize the programs as they see fit.
 

MTLynn

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No, I would like the people in a given state to control the programs offered in that state. Allow the people of TN to vote for how their tax money is spent domestically, let the people of VT spend how they want, let California and New York spend as they like
That is the way the US Constitution was written - it's why Colorado has legalized weed and Nevada has legalized prostitution, etc.

States are like small independent countries. The federal government protects the states from outside threats and facilitates trade between the states. .

I think the European Union works in a similar fashion.
 
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RaiderDawg78

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Krugman is an admitted liberal hack.

On Election Day, he said we would go into a recession.

He said a major reason that he doesn’t want Bernie calling himself a socialist because that plays into Trump’s reelection.

He said Bernie isn’t a socialist because he doesn’t want to nationalize industries, which is untrue. Bernie has said several times in the past that we should nationalize several industries, including utilities.

Krugman is as reliable a source for unbiased commentary as Rush Limbaugh.
 

BlueRaiderFan

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First of all, plenty of conservative pundits had stated we would go into a recession when Obama won. Secondly, wanting to nationalize electric service is not taking over Ford, GE, Amazon, Walmart, etc, etc, etc, especially when you consider the fact that many utilities are already public.
 

RaiderDawg78

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How about when he said “I prefer the public ownership of banks, utilities, and major industries”? Or bragging about Castro’s policies? Thats Bernie.

But for Krugman, he called Obama a moderate conservative. I think his view maybe a bit skewed.
 

BlueRaiderFan

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How about when he said “I prefer the public ownership of banks, utilities, and major industries”? Or bragging about Castro’s policies? Thats Bernie.

But for Krugman, he called Obama a moderate conservative. I think his view maybe a bit skewed.
Even if Sanders did say it, I would be willing to bet he was much younger when he did, if he said it at all and you and I know that he couldn't get away with it, even if he wanted to. I prefer someone that wants to ensure that everyone has healthcare and that will bring healthcare costs down. Sanders can do that with the right Congress. He could also do something about a student loan system that is predatory in nature. A conservative, or moderate Democrat won't touch either of those.
 

RaiderDawg78

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Even if Sanders did say it, I would be willing to bet he was much younger when he did, if he said it at all and you and I know that he couldn't get away with it, even if he wanted to. I prefer someone that wants to ensure that everyone has healthcare and that will bring healthcare costs down. Sanders can do that with the right Congress. He could also do something about a student loan system that is predatory in nature. A conservative, or moderate Democrat won't touch either of those.
He did say those things, but you’re correct it has been a few years since he was quoted on Castro and banks.

Since those seem to be your primary issues, Sanders is probably a good choice for you.
 

BlueRaiderFan

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Sanders is correct. Castro has done a few things correctly. That doesn't mean he supports communism or Castro.
 

RaiderDawg78

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Sanders is correct. Castro has done a few things correctly. That doesn't mean he supports communism or Castro.
The Dems nominating Bernie just means 4 mores years of Trump.

I have relatives in state that told me they voted for Biden in early voting because they don’t like Trump. But they will absolutely vote Trump over Bernie and Warren.

The white 50+ year old moderates will never vote for Bernie but would Biden or Bloomberg. The problem with the Dems is they will push so far left in the primaries that the will lose the general.

So yeah Bernie, keep on talking about all the good Castro did.
 

BlueRaiderFan

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Sanders isn't really that far left. It's just that our country has been brainwashed by Fox News, et al.
 

BlueRaiderFan

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I'm not bummed. I do think it's a mistake by the left and independents for not supporting him above Biden.
 

RaiderDawg78

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I'm not bummed. I do think it's a mistake by the left and independents for not supporting him above Biden.
I have a lot of family that are older, moderate conservatives that do not like Trump.

They disliked Hillary more than Trump though and voted Don in 2016.

I asked how they are leaning this year b/t Bernie and Biden, they all unequivocally said they would vote Trump if Bernie was the Dem nominee, but would vote Biden if he is the nominee.

Bernie’s link to communism and socialism, whether true or perceived (depending on your stance), is a no go for many people who grew up during the Cold War.

The dems need someone who can get those types of voters to go blue and Biden offers a better chance than Bernie.