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FOOTBALL MT near top in Conference USA coaches' salaries, near bottom in ticket sales

Voodoo math/fake news. Writer is trying to discredit his old beat write for some reason? Mt is a power house with plenty of cash to burn. Just trying to get football competitive on the national stage like they did basketball. "Candy scared" would be a more appropriate headline.
 
There might not be a figure I care less about than Endowment haha. But I will say once football hits its stride the donations will come flooding in!!! The investment in the coaching staff will go down as pure brilliance. We can touch base in 5-10 years when that 59 million is more like 590.
 
I thought the 100 years anniversary fundraising campaign was able to to add more than a few million to the ever paltry MT endowment. Then again, usually broke MT could have already dipped into that and spent it. IIRC, some of that money raised helped with the new science bldg as I seem to recall that MT still had to cough a portion of the overall cost even with the state capital expenditure.
 
At the risk of sounding critical, it sort of sounds like USA TODAY network just may have tried to scoop the GoMiddle report that the GoMiddle crew have been working on. Bringing out Adam Sparks to write such an article suggests that perhaps USA TODAY is not yet willing to relinquish the role or place of being the main "media" source of MT sports reporting and coverage.
For a couple/few weeks, GoMiddle announces and promotes an upcoming report and analysis or overall status of MT athletics investigations by interview w/ Massaro and FOIA docs on typically closely held info about MT ticket sales and overall dept.

Lo and behold, just before the GoMiddle folks could get it out, USA TODAY, Tennessean, DNJ network releases a related article on some incredibly related material i.e. the poor sports tickets revenues compared to other C-USA programs. Something many have been suspecting and concerned about I might add.

In my opinion, GoMiddle just got scooped possibly with a little damage control by the athletic dept on the front end. The upside for you GoMiddle folks, I think your initiative, interest, and work to actually fill a dying media space with some quality hard-hitting questions and assessment that MT fans/alums have been wanting to know definitely got the attention of the "professional" "traditional" "mainstream sports media." I suspect you guys work on this got some peoples' attention.

An upside: this pretty much supports the idea that there is at least a fair amount of interest in the area for news, info, and coverage of MT athletics.

Just my two cents.
 
DABLUERAIDERS said:
There might not be a figure I care less about than Endowment haha. But I will say once football hits its stride the donations will come flooding in!!! The investment in the coaching staff will go down as pure brilliance. We can touch base in 5-10 years when that 59 million is more like 590.
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Love your enthusiasm but I'd settle for a couple of wins in a row over WKU and an outright C-USA Football Title before I die. So far, in the past six years, Stock has only produced a 2-10 season and lopsided postseason losses in meaningless bowl games to Miami Ohio, Navy, Western Mich, and Hawaii.
 
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Blueraider_Mike said:
Sparks and the USA report didn't tell us anything we didn't already know...I put my trust in GoMiddle team to give us details and the information we are really looking for.
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I'm waiting for their last two parts before I really weigh in. While I applaud what they are trying to accomplish, I'm afraid these youngsters are being led down the primrose path.
 
Just a little talk about this "Endowment" figure. The MTSU foundation was $75 million +/-a dozen or so years ago IIRC. Without someone absconding with the money, very poor management, or a severe economic downturn it should always be growing. If a person establishes a scholarship, for example, the money is invested and only the proceeds (profits) from the investment are used for the scholarship and excess $$$s above the stated objective are invested back in the endowment. I am extremely discouraged to hear the endowment is only $57 million, especially considering the 100th anniversary fund raising promotion a few years back which was expected to raise $100 million, a large portion of which was I thought going to the endowment.

I donate a small amount to the MTSU Foundation each year and it is my expectation (hope I won't be proven wrong) that this annual giving is invested with the principal never used and only the proceeds being used in perpetuity. This would be my expectation if I endowed a scholarship with whatever the amount required to fund such a scholarship is or if I left a legacy donation in my will, not that I can afford to do either.

I could be wrong but it is my understanding that at most schools many, if not all, athletic scholarships are funded by having scholarships set up by donations, freeing up athletic dept. $$$s from the burden of paying for those athletes' tuition, room and board, etc.

All that said, I once saw that when compared to two similar type (state funded regional) schools: TTU and WKU, our foundation endowment was poor in comparison, both in endowment size and % of alumni who give. This is a real issue for those of us who care about The University and is much more important than the upcoming FB season record or anything else we enjoy posting about on sports-related social media. It's really a poor reflection on our alumni. (I have to say that I thought giving to your college/university was expected as I was aware early on that both my parents and several other relatives gave annually, even if only a few $$$ a year). If you are an alumni I would encourage you to donate annually to The Foundation, even is only $10.00 a year, along with whatever else you do for the school.
 
im amazed this number is down as well. It's as if every football season after a loss a group of people on a public forum called for a cease of all giving...well played! The master plan is really coming together!
 
DABLUERAIDERS said:
im amazed this number is down as well. It's as if every football season after a loss a group of people on a public forum called for a cease of all giving...well played! The master plan is really coming together!
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It's one thing to be a happy clapper or cheerleader but to over exaggerate just to try to make a point makes you look foolish. Not that it really matters but I was still very involved until Stock hired West in 2014.
 
FranklinRaider315 said:
It's one thing to be a happy clapper or cheerleader but to over exaggerate just to try to make a point makes you look foolish. Not that it really matters but I was still very involved until Stock hired West in 2014.
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West should have been shown the door with Nix. I predict Shafer and West will not see eye to eye and ole Tommy gets a demotion. Of course Stock could intervene for his buddy.
 
The sooner our fan base loses this millennial believe that the program "owes" them something the better. Support the program for what it is, your alma mater. We are going to have the best football season ever, top 25 type stuff. Might as well jump on the bandwagon now and re up that donation franklin!
 
MTTim said:
Well the first 2 parts are meaningless teasers. Hopefully they now give us something we want to know.
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First article (about a month ago) just reviewed the Massaro meeting
Second article (posted Friday) highlighted that Massaro understands more needs to be done
Tomorrow's article will look at financials
Wednesday's article will look at facilities

Casey and I were given hundreds of pages of financial records so there is a LOT that didn't make the articles. I plan to have a Periscope chat this weekend so you guys can ask any questions that didn't make the article.
 
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Blueraider_Mike said:
Sparks and the USA report didn't tell us anything we didn't already know...I put my trust in GoMiddle team to give us details and the information we are really looking for.
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Not being contrarian, but hasn't the ticket sales been held pretty close by the athletic dept for years? Or is it the actual number of tickets sold i.e. season tickets that I'm mixing up? I say that because it seems for years plenty of us have been wondering on the status of football season ticket sales etc.
 
DABLUERAIDERS said:
The sooner our fan base loses this millennial believe that the program "owes" them something the better. Support the program for what it is, your alma mater. We are going to have the best football season ever, top 25 type stuff. Might as well jump on the bandwagon now and re up that donation franklin!
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Yeah right.
 
Aside from the much known fact that the Blue Raider teams really need and deserve good support and attendance from the community, students, and alumni, the season ticket sales over recent years is really poor even compared to other C-USA programs. Men's basketball has certainly seen a solid rise in attendance over the last 5 years with all of the team's success. Admittedly, the success the last couple of years demands even better attendance and support for Kermit and team. Yea, 5,000 and 6,000 consistent turnout is pretty good for MT bball games compared to the overall attendance of the last 20 years. These last couple of years of championship bball and the first top 25 ranking deserves consistent crowds in the 8,000 to 9,000 range for most home games. A few of the big home games vs rivals WKU or good ooc matchups i.e. Ole Miss & Vandy should see 10,000 to 11,000 in attendance. Heck, it's not asking too much that one or two of those a season be sellouts. Again, games vs Vandy in ooc or rivalry games vs WKU or UAB with 1st place on the line should realistically be sellouts.

Football is a whole other problem. It would seem almost inevitable that the next two years with Brent and All-American Richie James will be key in indicating the direction of coaching and overall direction of the football program. The ticket sales and attendance is really just abysmal. No matter how one spins it with number of years of bowl eligibility, the success and energy is not there to create buzz to draw fans out to Floyd Stadium. I don't think coach stock is going anywhere the next 2 years with his son at QB. If he hasn't turned the program around in that time, it would have to be incredibly hard for Massaro to continue to keep coach stock. Especially as tougher schedules will likely make winning even more difficult. If coach stock can't get things turned around these next two years, a change has to be made at HC. Something will have to change to bring life back into the program to get fans interested in returning to Floyd Stadium. It would be nice to see a turnaround like that start this season, but it will have to be proven on the field to convince fans it would seem.
 
dukewayne said:
Not being contrarian, but hasn't the ticket sales been held pretty close by the athletic dept for years? Or is it the actual number of tickets sold i.e. season tickets that I'm mixing up? I say that because it seems for years plenty of us have been wondering on the status of football season ticket sales etc.
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All the information has been held close to the vest...the latest article from GoMiddle today shows the info from the last 10 years, its sobering to say the least.

4 big impacts on the budget - No one saw all four of these happening at the same time
- Loss of student fees; we are down 3K in total enrollment
- Loss of TV revenue
- Declining season tix sales in FB and mens BB
- Economic downturn and lack of growth over the last 9 years

I think we all knew this but its good to see the actual numbers. Now we have transparency and a better understanding.
 
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Thanks for the good work. Investigative journalism hard-core fans have been wanting. Answers given to a lot of questions loyal posters have been asking for years. Very easy to see why we have so many "body bag" games and the # of home FB games is down.

One important point regarding the "lack of transparency": As a fan (and I'm sure those in the offices in Murphy Ctr.) I really don't want to spread around information which makes us look extremely bad in a financial comparison to P5 schools (a problem which has only gotten worse in recent years - I'm thinking about the $EC network $$$ here). Not a good thing to advertise to potential fans and recruits how stretched we are.

One question you didn't address in your report is the trend for both ticket sales and BRAA memberships outside of M'Boro/Rutherford Co. When he came in Massaro made a big deal about being MTSU and not M'BoroSU and indicated he was going to reach out to all of the mid-state area for support. I have seen little to show such an effort, even in areas with little funding required. We can argue all day about whether we must dominate the local market or if gaining support from a wider area is a better path to growth. IMHO both are necessary and feed off of each other.
 
MTFNBY5 said:
Thanks for the good work. Investigative journalism hard-core fans have been wanting. Answers given to a lot of questions loyal posters have been asking for years. Very easy to see why we have so many "body bag" games and the # of home FB games is down.

One important point regarding the "lack of transparency": As a fan (and I'm sure those in the offices in Murphy Ctr.) I really don't want to spread around information which makes us look extremely bad in a financial comparison to P5 schools (a problem which has only gotten worse in recent years - I'm thinking about the $EC network $$$ here). Not a good thing to advertise to potential fans and recruits how stretched we are.
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I understand your point. Two quick things :
1) MT's financial situation, unfortunately, is not unlike most non-P5 schools, many of whom MT battles on a yearly basis for recruits. It's the nature of the beast.
2) As a media outlet, we (GoMiddle) have to do our best to remove any potential bias and report the news/facts. Good or bad.

MTFNBY5 said:
One question you didn't address in your report is the trend for both ticket sales and BRAA memberships outside of M'Boro/Rutherford Co. When he came in Massaro made a big deal about being MTSU and not M'BoroSU and indicated he was going to reach out to all of the mid-state area for support. I have seen little to show such an effort, even in areas with little funding required. We can argue all day about whether we must dominate the local market or if gaining support from a wider area is a better path to growth. IMHO both are necessary and feed off of each other.
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We didn't ask that specific question (season tickets from Boro vs season tickets elsewhere). I imagine with Massaro's more strategic approach to marketing, we can ask that question in a Q&A next year.

You did, however, remind me of something Massaro did say in the interview that didn't make the article. Massaro hinted that not only will they be more strategic but they may alter where they market in the future.
 
Yeah I do recall (will need to review my notes again) Massaro laying out an idea on how to increase presence, awareness and, ultimately increase ticket sales in some of these outlier areas. Let me go back through and get back to you on this.
 
Blueraider_Mike said:
All the information has been held close to the vest...the latest article from GoMiddle today shows the info from the last 10 years, its sobering to say the least.

4 big impacts on the budget - No one saw all four of these happening at the same time
- Loss of student fees; we are down 3K in total enrollment
- Loss of TV revenue
- Declining season tix sales in FB and mens BB
- Economic downturn and lack of growth over the last 9 years

I think we all knew this but its good to see the actual numbers. Now we have transparency and a better understanding.
Click to expand...

Loss of student fees; we are down 3K in total enrollment - I have to question why this is. I know the free juco stuff had an impact, but I have read reports over the last couple of years of other former Board of Regents colleges enrollment that have not been impacted to the extent MT has been or not been impacted at all (continued upward enrollment growth). Also anytime there has been a Cinderella capture the public's imagination in March Madness over the years, you naturally see follow up articles that will mention large increases of applications and enrollment. Are we too early in the shadow of Kermit's post season success to realize some enrollment growth as a result? Is there something else here I'm not seeing? For years, MT never had to worry about lack of growth due to the population growth of Nashville and the surrounding area, regardless of economic conditions.
 
SpaceRaider said:
Loss of student fees; we are down 3K in total enrollment - I have to question why this is. I know the free juco stuff had an impact, but I have read reports over the last couple of years of other former Board of Regents colleges enrollment that have not been impacted to the extent MT has been or not been impacted at all (continued upward enrollment growth). Also anytime there has been a Cinderella capture the public's imagination in March Madness over the years, you naturally see follow up articles that will mention large increases of applications and enrollment. Are we too early in the shadow of Kermit's post season success to realize some enrollment growth as a result? Is there something else here I'm not seeing? For years, MT never had to worry about lack of growth due to the population growth of Nashville and the surrounding area, regardless of economic conditions.
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I work in Higher Ed. Virtually every school in the state - public or private - has been hit by the TN Promise / JuCo program (even out-of-state schools are feeling the impact).

It's not too early to see Kermit's post-season success coming back in the form of increased enrollment. Crossing fingers, I think MT may see increased enrollment in the fall semester for two reasons :
1) I believe this will be the third year in the TN Promise program and students who benefited from TN Promise will be transferring to 4 year schools.
2) MT may enjoy a high number of transfer students because of the MBB success and the relatively affordable tuition at the school

MT's adult learning program (online undergraduate and graduate program) offering is abysmal. It's huge market that MT needs to better reach and it's one of the non-athletic areas must MT improve under the new MT Board of Trustees
 
Yet CM sets a mediocre bar to reward mediocre results in football then can't understand why Rutherford, Williamson and Davidson County zip codes won't buy more than 5,000 season tickets or fill up a 30,000 seat stadium. For starters, don't lose at home to a Texas directional school that just started playing Div. 1 football on 2011.
 
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FranklinRaider315 said:
Yet CM sets a mediocre bar to reward mediocre results in football then can't understand why Rutherford, Williamson and Davidson County zip codes won't buy more than 5,000 season tickets or fill up a 30,000 seat stadium. For starters, don't lose at home to a Texas directional school that just started playing Div. 1 football on 2011.
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Wait, wasn't it just yesterday you expected GoMiddle writer's to take the "primrose path" (whatever that is?) Now, we (GoMiddle) report the news and the sky is falling?
 
AustinLewis said:
Wait, wasn't it just yesterday you expected GoMiddle writer's to take the "primrose path" (whatever that is?) Now, we (GoMiddle) report the news and the sky is falling?
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You haven't reported anything that some of us didn't already know. Ask CM for a copy the white pages wish list for MTSU and what the plan/timeline is to actually fund it and build it. Specifically, the $30MM Football Operations Facility.
 
AustinLewis said:
Wait, wasn't it just yesterday you expected GoMiddle writer's to take the "primrose path" (whatever that is?) Now, we (GoMiddle) report the news and the sky is falling?
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You missed my point. I didn't say you would accept all this "transparency" at face value. They kept kicking the can down the road and now it's coming back to bite them. And, you don't tie up your football program with an 8 year mortgage for a Head Coach who has yet to win an outright conference championship in Football. Bottom line, it's still a business and it is hemorrhaging. General Fund subsidies will never take the place of winning big, fan support and ticket sales. Just my two cents.
 
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FranklinRaider315 said:
You missed my point. I didn't say you would accept all this "transparency" at face value. They kept kicking the can down the road and now it's coming back to bite them. And, you don't tie up your football program with an 8 year mortgage for a Head Coach who has yet to win an outright conference championship in Football. Bottom line, it's still a business and it is hemorrhaging. General Fund subsidies will never take the place of winning big, fan support and ticket sales. Just my two cents.
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You said "these youngsters are being led down the primrose path" inferring that we would take the path of least resistance with regard to the Pulling Back the Curtain series. We haven't and we won't.

FWIW, I'm not a big fan of the 8 year contract for any coach not named Nick Saban.

Let's not act like MT is the only school in the nation with financial difficulties. Most non-P5 schools do.
 
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Well here is an honest question. Say CRS has two decent years. Say we go 9-3 and 8-4. Win a bowl and lose a bowl. 10-2 even. Then he retires when Brent is done and a new coach is brought in.

Do you think that would bump sales and excitement in the program? I'm sure it would but I don't think it would be an immediate jump. I'm sure some will say there is a prospect for more though with an unknown than with "Rick know what you get Stockstill" as some say.

Just playing devil's advocate. Not saying fire Stock now. Just wondering if some think that a change of that magnitude would boost sales or if it would even make a difference with the other obstacles we face that are listed in the article parts so far.
 
MidTennMtneer said:
Well here is an honest question. Say CRS has two decent years. Say we go 9-3 and 8-4. Win a bowl and lose a bowl. 10-2 even. Then he retires when Brent is done and a new coach is brought in.

Do you think that would bump sales and excitement in the program? I'm sure it would but I don't think it would be an immediate jump. I'm sure some will say there is a prospect for more though with an unknown than with "Rick know what you get Stockstill" as some say.

Just playing devil's advocate. Not saying fire Stock now. Just wondering if some think that a change of that magnitude would boost sales or if it would even make a difference with the other obstacles we face that are listed in the article parts so far.
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There are two ways to increase season ticket sales.
1. WIN BIG, early and several season in a row (we have never done this) - its a bitch but this is what we have to do. We have to beat Vandy, beat either Minn or Syc and then have a great CUSA season and win a bowl game. There is no expectation other than 7-5 and a bowl game...to many other ways to spend your cash.
2. Guerrilla marketing - We were at 6K in season ticket sales for years, only the last 3 years has it been dropping. If we truly understood "who" was buying and "why" they were buying we would be pushing 7-8K - I believe our goal should be a 10K season ticket base. We just haven't asked enough people personally to be a part of the program and have missed out on 17 years of big graduating classes to build upon. This doesn't cost a lot of money but takes time and effort.
3. Men's BB - so far based on the numbers, I don't see a bump despite 5 years of good teams. I don't really have an answer other than we need to keep doing what we are doing.

I think the hardest part to all of this in the incrementalism to it, both to the upside and the down side. There really hasn't been a moment big enough to create any solid momentum.
 
AustinLewis said:
You said "these youngsters are being led down the primrose path" inferring that we would take the path of least resistance with regard to the Pulling Back the Curtain series. We haven't and we won't.

FWIW, I'm not a big fan of the 8 year contract for any coach not named Nick Saban.

Let's not act like MT is the only school in the nation with financial difficulties. Most non-P5 schools do.
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http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/
Just 250 miles west.....

Ticket Revenue $10,036,174
Contributions $10,499,478

Only AAC school to generate more revenue from the fan base than receiving in subsidies.

It can be done. Even at a "Basketball School"
 
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