BASKETBALL Middle Tennessee(4-12, 0-3) vs WKU(9-6, 2-1), CBSSN, 5PM, Saturday, January 11, 2020

Discussion in 'The Raider Roundup' started by SpaceRaider, Jan 10, 2020.

  1. SpaceRaider

    SpaceRaider Moderator
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    Western Kentucky University
    Location:
    Bowling Green, KY
    Enrollment: 19,461
    Arena: E.A. Diddle Arena (7,523)
    Website: wkusports.com
    Colors: Red & White Nickname: Hilltoppers
    Head Coach: Rick Stansbury Record at School: 62-42 (3 Seasons) Career Record: 355-208 (17 Seasons)
    2018-19 Record: 20-14, 11-7 2018-19 Finish: T-2nd C-USA 2018-19 Postseason: N/A
    Starters R/L: 4/1 Letterwinners R/L: 4/6

    Twitter: @WKUBasketball

    GAME NOTES

    LISTEN

    LIVE STATS

    LIVE VIDEO (WKU)


    Date: January 11, 2020 Time: 5:00 PM CT
    Location: Murfreesboro, Tenn.
    Arena: Murphy Center (11,520)
    Series Record: WKU leads 94-43
    TV: CBS Sports Network Talent: Ben Holden (PxP), Chris Walker (Analyst)
    Radio: Blue Raider Network (Game2/WGNS/TuneIn) Talent: Chip Walters (PxP), Kyle Turnham (Analyst)
    Twitter: @MT_MBB, #BlueRaiders
     
    1 SpaceRaider, Jan 10, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2020
  2. MT01

    MT01 True Blue
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    *Sigh*
     
  3. SpaceRaider

    SpaceRaider Moderator
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  4. SpaceRaider

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  5. SpaceRaider

    SpaceRaider Moderator
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  6. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    McDevitt is in over his head. End of story.
     
  7. MT01

    MT01 True Blue
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  8. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    I am so enraged, disappointed, ...I literally cannot even form a sentence to explain how I feel right now.

    F THIS COACHING STAFF

    GET THE F OUT OF TOWN
     
  9. blueraiderJT

    blueraiderJT Hall of Famer
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    They will in 9.5 years.
     
  10. SpaceRaider

    SpaceRaider Moderator
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    42-24 at the half.
     
  11. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    WE ARE IN YEAR 2, GAME 17

    HOW CAN WE LOOK SO LOST ON OFFENSE AND DEFENSE? I UNDERSTAND OUR PLAYERS ARE NOT VERY SKILLED, BUT HOW THE F CAN THEY LOOK LIKE A HIGH SCHOOL TEAM OUT THERE???

    IN THE FIRST HALF......
    -OUTREBOUNDED BY OVER A 50% MARGIN
    -MORE TURN OVERS THAN ASSISTS
    -OTHER TEAM SHOOTING % IS TWICE OURS
    -WE CAN HARDLY COMPLETE A F'ING PASS ON OFFENSE

    WTF IS GOING ON?????????????????????????????????
     
  12. MT01

    MT01 True Blue
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    You add where our BB program is now with the assessment of our football program by our leaders today, and I can't think of a more depressing period in MT athletics.

    The only good thing I can say is at least I'm going to be saving some money.
     
  13. SpaceRaider

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    Dont see either McPhee or Massaro here tonight. Embarrassed to be seen?
     
  14. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    We should create a Gofundme account where donations can be deferred for those who want to stop giving to the university.

    Once Massaro is fired, the GoFundMe account balance would be released to the athletics department.
     
  15. MTTim

    MTTim True Blue
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    We are just bad in every phase of the game. No shooters just bricklayers.
     
  16. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    I'm officially done with McDevitt. Not gonna get into all the specific as to why, but I've thought about it long and hard.

    What finally put me over the edge was this.

    Everyone talks about all these great players he recruited at UNCA, and how they went to Power 5 programs. CBS Sports NEtwork just put up a list of 6 or more of these players. Some of them extremely talented.

    Guess how many post-season tournament games McDevitt won with these great players?? CIT, NIT, NCAA appearances....guess how many wins?

    ZERO

    HE IS NOT A GOOD COACH, AND IT IS VERY CLEARLY SHOWING HERE IN YEAR 2 AT MT

    DISASTROUS HIRE AND RESULTS........
     
  17. MT01

    MT01 True Blue
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    What makes this even worse is that C-USA - this year at the current time - doesn't have a single team in the top 100. This league is so bad this year - yet we just keep getting dominated.
     
  18. RaiderDawg78

    RaiderDawg78 All American
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    found them in the locker room taking care of the “internal” behind the scene issues that are holding back our athletic programs.**
     
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  19. MTLynn

    MTLynn Hall of Famer
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    Green went 1-6. He hit a 2-pt shot - that has to be a first for him.
     
  20. FranklinRaider315

    FranklinRaider315 All American
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    At a Titans / Ravens watch party maybe?

    (4-13), (0-4)
     
  21. MT01

    MT01 True Blue
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    No, they knew the outcome and don't actually like to watch bad basketball that they have fomented.
     
  22. Blue_H

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    Well, this game followed the script. Precisely the reason I won't be attending a MBB this year. You know exactly how we'll lose. So painful to watch.
     
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  23. dukewayne

    dukewayne All American
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    You read my mind. This is unacceptable. There is only leadership in name only.
     
  24. dukewayne

    dukewayne All American
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    Losing to our rivals WKU in a mostly empty Murphy Center where MT was not even competitive is just unacceptable. A WKU that has truly been hampered by injuries to their top players. I'm tired of the excuses.

    What troubles me about as much as anything right now is that there is little to no sign CNM is upset, frustrated, outraged, alarmed, or angry. If he is, he's not really showing it in public. I mean this is embarrassing, and nothing from the coach. We just have to get shots to fall, is the answer.
     
  25. TrueBlue147

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    I think we're all beginning to realize we are not a well coached team. We dont even block out for rebounds. Our guys just stand there when the ball goes up. We are a low basketball IQ team as well. I wouldn't trust our guys to make a smart decision in a close game. That is a reflection of the coach. I think we were better last season because we still had Kermit's guys on the team with Hawthorne, Sims, and Gamble. Now all we have is Sims. We are a horrible shooting team running a bad offense. If we're going to win at all going forward he better get some really good players in here because this dude cant coach at all. Im guessing thats what he was able to do in the low level Southern conference but I dont think that will work in CUSA.
     
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  26. dukewayne

    dukewayne All American
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    I clicked like because I pretty much agree with you, but it's not that I "like" this sad state of affairs you described.

    The doubts or questions I had early about CNM seem to be pushing to the front in spite of trying to give him the benefit of the doubt and a hopeful start with a new team.

    The narrative is an obvious one. Small conf to big more competitive conf ends up in over his head. I had hoped it would be upcoming coach rebuilds roster and succeeds after rough start with young players. No matter what I hoped for CNM, results seem to suggest with each passing week the coach is in over his head.

    I could handle some losing in service to growing, teaching, improving, and developing a young team. The problem is I'm not really seeing any signs of improvement.

    To top it all off, new coach seems to reflect current Univ leadership with lackadaisical attitude towards lots of losing.
     
  27. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    It's very concerning to me that he was able to recruit such talented players at UNCA, but could never even win a single post season game with invitations to the CIT, NIT, and NCAA tournament.

    Now when I look at our team, we look so lost on offense and defense. As others have noted, players just standing around looking lost. Sometimes we struggle to complete a basic pass. I rarely see McDevitt coaching or correcting players during a game while his predecessor, Kermit Davis, spent most of his time during games doing such.

    I actually think McDevitt is way out of his league. He's spent his entire adult life playing and coaching for one of the smallest and poorest D1 programs in the country in little Asheville, NC. He might be a great coach one day, but currently he greatly lacks the experience and wherewithal to get the job done here. We should not be this bad and this uncompetitive even with the poor roster of players that we have. It is truly inexcusable. I see his buddy doesn't say much anymore on this message board because what we are seeing is, QUITE LITERALLY, INEXCUSABLE.

    What a damn shame it is too. Because we were on the precipice of greatness and becoming a powerhouse G5/mid-major program until this disaster hire.

    Makes me literally sick to my stomach.
     
    27 sWiley, Jan 11, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2020
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  28. blueraiderJT

    blueraiderJT Hall of Famer
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    Kernit built the program and Massaro destroyed it in 5 days with a stupid hire. Only 9.5 years before we get another carolina reject.
     
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  29. dukewayne

    dukewayne All American
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    Wiley, it makes me sick as well. When Kermit left, I imagine most dedicated fans worst fears were that the next coach would lose all the progress, momentum, and winning culture that was developed over years, many years.

    Having to replace so many roster spots, the early going was going to be rough. That in itself did not mean that the new coach was destined to see all progress and momentum built under Kermit brought to a ruin.

    In the transitional year, the team kept playing hard and finally earning some wins before the season ended. Then new players added to fill out the roster for this season. With the new players and others sitting out or injured, it figured that their would be some growing pains. With players returning and new guys gaining valuable experience, the ingredients were there to start seeing some improvements. Only no improvements have shown up. Then questions or doubts about some areas of coaching started to show themselves as trends. Finally at this point, alarms are starting to sound. Then not even being competitive vs our rival WKU that has been decimated by injuries was finally just unacceptable.

    I've been ok with earlier advocating for the new coach to have a chance to develop a team. Even though there were some ugly stretches on the court. At this point, it is more than reasonable to expect at least see some improvements. I'm not even talking about winning games, just showing improvement and competing more effectively. Not only have improvements remained elusive, in my opinion there are no outward signs that CNM is alarmed or outraged that his team is getting embarrassed on the court.

    Combine all that with Massaro and McPhee lack of leadership, and I'm done with spending my time and energy advocating for fans to stay the course with this HC. I can no longer defend what I'm seeing. I have to be honest about it. Not only for the sake of honesty, but because I refuse to be a voice that knowingly enables the team to perform poorly and settle for losing. Lastly, I'm not even hearing CNM publicly present any real answers to the team's problems.
     
  30. dukewayne

    dukewayne All American
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    Oh Wiley I almost forgot I did see kingaling post in a thread in the last week or so. I think he means well. I think he was even posting that he couldn't explain the poor play. At least that was how I understood him.
     
  31. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    He does mean well and I'm not dogging him. And I saw his post as well. Something to the effect of unbelievably poor shooting, etc.

    There's so much more to it than just poor shooting though. This team is bad in every single phase of the game. I cannot put into words how bad they are. They cannot complete a basic pass at times or put 2 hands on a rebound and bring it down. We have no presence in the paint whatsoever. WKU had nobody to defend the paint against us and we couldn't take any advantage of that fact. Our guards are terrible outside shooters while simultaneously allowing one of the highest 3%'s in D1 basketball. Good recipe right there to lose and get blown out in the process. The team is just terrible and I actually cannot find ANYTHING positive to speak of. Every game we play has been effectively over at half time. We don't even look like we belong on the same court as our opponents. It is indescribably bad.

    And shockingly, they appear to somehow be getting even worse with each passing game which is just unthinkable. They have regressed since last season and even appear to be regressing as this season carries on. What in god's name is going on? I understand we don't have a roster of superstars and that our bench is thin.....but that's not an excuse to be this bad. Not even close. Holy hell, I think some of us could maybe get more out of these kids at this point, and I'm not joking in the slightest bit. We certainly couldn't do any worse.....750k per year and highest paid coach in CUSA gets us this? How does Massaro have a job? How is McPhee still president of this university? Is there no accountability in this bureaucratic, government run sports operation at Middle Tennessee State? Those clowns better thank their lucky stars this is not a privately owned corporation because their a$$es would have been fired long ago (and probably never hired to begin with, incompetent fvck's)....

    Real shame it all had to go this bad. If we were going to hire a guy from a lower level conference, couldn't we at least hired one that had some success in a post season tournament?

    I cannot and will not ever be able to get over the fact that with all those good players McDevitt had at UNCA, he could never win a post-season tournament game. Trips to the CIT, NIT, NCAA....all empty. That means something. It means a lot. It is a big indicator that when facing other competent programs, he struggles.

    I would love to know his record vs. quality OOC opponents at UNCA. Let's say 100 or better in the RPI. Anyone care to look this up?
     
    31 sWiley, Jan 11, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  32. dukewayne

    dukewayne All American
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    You are right. At a time when it is more than reasonable to expect to start seeing some improvements, I've been dumbfounded watching games where they appear to be playing worse. It has really started to sound the alarms because they appear to be headed in the wrong direction. Frankly, I've about given up on trying to figure out just what CNM is trying to get the team to do on offense and defense.

    Then the message he has been putting out there has been that the players are getting good open looks but the shots just aren't falling. Heck, they were even repeating that mantra on national tv tonight during the game to try to explain to the audience just why MT stunk so bad. After a while one of the announcers started talking about some of the problems he was watching. Notably it was a lack of a defender at the front of the rim and how MT was allowing WKU to drive straight to the basket all game. He also noted MT's lack attacking the rim on offense. In my opinion, those were just a few obvious problems out of many.

    Shots not falling is just a vague observation in my opinion. It is not a solution or answer.
     
  33. FranklinRaider315

    FranklinRaider315 All American
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    Any crowd pics? Official attendance per the Box Score on goblueraiders.com was 3,167.
     
  34. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    How fast can we get out of the McDevitt deal? Anyone know his buyout? How we made him the highest paid coach in CUSA @ 750k/year is truly mind-boggling. There had to be better options out there. Should have offered Steve Forbes the 1.7 we offered Kermit I can't see how he coulda turned that down.

    I've seen enough at this point to know he will never be able to win championships here. Knowing our luck he will start having 50% winning seasons in Year 3 and Year 4 and get a huge contract from Massaro. How all of these idiots continue to pull 6 figure checks for what they do blows my mind. I should have been an athletic director.

    Is there another D1 university out there where its this difficult to be a fan? Dead serious question.
     
  35. dukewayne

    dukewayne All American
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    Yep, he'll have 9 or 10 years on the job to try to learn and grow into succeeding if Massaro's track record is any indication.
     
  36. kingaling42

    kingaling42 Blue Raider
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    Wiley- what are you? GAF? you just can't keep me out of your posts eh? I'm not going anywhere- these results aren't going to run me off- I'm not a sensitive guy like you..

    I haven't posted recently because unlike you I feel no reason to keep repeating the same stuff that I've already posted.. there is no explanation for much of what we see in these games all year thus far.. the offense is getting guys decent looks- guys that at the D1 level should produce. PERIOD.

    The defense is the same as it's been, terrible off the dribble and poor helpside help/recovery- it will continue to cost them close games.. the 1-3-1 is the only scheme that is working with any consistency but you can't do that all game long and you can't get into it during transition/missed shots... as for the recruiting the only thing I know is that the original plan was to redshirt at least 1-2 of the guys that are currently playing due to other injuries/issues.. that didn't happen and you can see why the redsirts would've helped as some of them need more time.. there is no reason or explanation for Green being MIA all year- whatever is going on with him is between the ears.. there's no reason why multiple guys can't seem to have good games in the same contest- it shouldn't be either/or.. there's no reason to explain why the coaches didn't adjust during the game to Marshall's strong side- weak side lob action.. so until I see this team doing something different-there's been nothing to post about.. .
     
  37. blueraiderJT

    blueraiderJT Hall of Famer
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    The D is poor because CNM is not a defensive guy. He doesn't know it or how to implement it and he didn't at his last job. They were a shootout type team. 103-96 type games. Kermit was a defense first coach and even in his darkest years at our school, he was better than the coach we have now. He just was and is better. Not even close. We didn't upgrade or even make a lateral move. We downgraded. I said it last year and now we are somehow worse. He will be here another few years to prove me and others wrong but it's gonna be brutal. He's not the right fit for us. Time will prove this point.

    Greg Grensing should have been the guy. He knew D and he knew how to recruit to our needs. He also is a rigorous practice coach. He would have us in a better place than we are now. I will go to the grave believeing that. No question. People can disagree all they want and I don't give a sh!t. This dude we have ain't the guy and I knew it from the start. He's not and won't ever be. It's almost too late now. The program is decimated. If I was Massaro, I would already engineer the buyout and beg Grensing to come in and take over. I'd do it now. The dude is still in town and I throw extra cash to do it.

    That won't happen. We gotta suffer. That is our lot. We had our glory, our icarus moment and now we are grounded looking up. Maybe fortune and reason will dawn on us again but until that happens, we are plagued with this staff and leadership.
     
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  38. kingaling42

    kingaling42 Blue Raider
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    You lost me at 103-96 type games.. if you're going to say off the wall BS stuff then you're going to lose credibility...

    Now I'm certainly not going to defend what we're seeing this year and CKD was/is more of a defensive minded coach.. but there are recent years where CNM had better defensive teams at UNCA than MTSU (2015-16).. for the most part the data clearly shows that CKD had better defensive teams and I suspect always will- at least in the simple Points Allowed comparisons- CNM increased offensive tempo is going to allow more scoring chances alone such that even if the defenses were the same the total points allowed would not be due to more opportunties.. however here's the actual offensive & defensive data and national rankings for both teams from 2013-2018..

    2017-18
    MTSU: Offense 75.1 pts/game (140th) | Defense allowed 66.3 (35th)
    UNCA: Offense 75.2 pts/game (135th) | Defense allowed 73.5 (204th)

    2016-17
    MTSU: Offense 74.9 pts/game (131st) | Defense allowed 63.9 (23rd)
    UNCA: Offense 77.1 pts/game (86th) | Defense allowed 68.5 (80th)

    2015-16
    MTSU: Offense 72.5 pts/game (188th) | Defense allowed 68.9 (98th)
    UNCA: Offense 75.1 pts/game (131st) | Defense allowed 68.0 (79th)

    2014-15
    MTSU: Offense 63.5 pts/game (278th) | Defense allowed 62.4 (68th)
    UNCA: Offense 72.3 pts/game (57th) | Defense allowed 70.4 (278th)

    2013-14
    MTSU: Offense 70.9 pts/game (184th) | Defense allowed 62.6 (25th)
    UNCA: Offense 77.7 pts/game (34th) | Defense allowed 75.8 (307th)

    MTSU's last 2 seasons are very similar to CNM's first 2 years as HC at UNCA.. although the trend is going the wrong way for sure
    2019-20
    MTSU: Offense 70.8 pts/game (206th) | Defense allowed 75.4 (311th)
    2018-19
    MTSU: Offense 66.9 pts/game (306th) | Defense allowed 72.3 (196th)

    It is always best to look at the actual stats than just anecdotal experiences..
     
  39. blueraiderJT

    blueraiderJT Hall of Famer
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    Dude, you can't be serious. We beat SEC teams and P5 teams on the regular. Your team hasn't done sh!t on that level. We beat the favorite and destroyed everyone's bracket in 2016. We beat UCLA by 20 on the road. Destroyed Vandy and Ole Miss. Won regular conference titles and tourneys. We were ranked in the top 25. This dude can't win 11 games a year. Dude is not a good coach for us. He might have been good for you but he can't coach his way out of a wet sack here. I watched his games at UNCC and his D was no where near Kermit's. No where near! The 1-3-1 to 2-3 zone switch and other fundamentals that Kermit brought were way ahead of CNM. That's why Kermit is winning at a P5 and CNM is killing our program.

    I know you like the guy but you are out of your mind. If that dude knows defense, I'm starting for the Lakers next week. GTHO of here with that nonsense. His fundamentals are non existent. It's the sloppyist team I've ever seen us field and I've watched us play since 81. Ball hogging, turnovers, no perimeter movement to set up plays. Bro, that dude is trash for us. He makes me wish we had Weil instead. LOL. So bad.
     
    39 blueraiderJT, Jan 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
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  40. kingaling42

    kingaling42 Blue Raider
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    I mean the numbers don't lie.. not sure why you went into all these other tangents for things I never implied... how'd you watch CNM games at UNCC? You're so full of sh!t you don't even know what school he was at- so I doubt seriously you've ever seen a single UNCA game including the Alaska Shootout match up a few years back... and Ole Miss has lost their last 3 including a total beat down at Wichita St and the Rebels are also winless in conference play..
     

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