Liberty University Football

[zreed]

You make it like you are more tolerant. Not true. Everyone is prejudice towards opposing views. Make no mistake.

Being intolerant of those who hold intolerant views is not the same thing as simply being intolerant.

By your logic, all world views and all opinions are equally valid.

Are you tolerant of Nazis? Are you tolerant of violent racists?

My so called "intolerance" is of people who are actively looking to infringe on the rights, and in some cases very existence, of other people.

People using their religion to suggest that certain groups should have fewer rights is intolerant, me saying that's not okay is not.

 

[JohnDavidBlue]

You are way off the deep end. No one remotely said anything about taking away rights or remove the existence of people.

 

[zreed]

You are way off the deep end. No one remotely said anything about taking away rights or remove the existence of people.

If you oppose two people you don't know getting married based on your religious beliefs, that's intolerant.

Me telling you it is not okay to attempt to legislate the rights of others with your religious beliefs is not intolerant.

Guys like Falwell and Robertson have openly blamed natural disasters and terrorists attacks on homosexuals invoking "God's wrath", that's not hateful?

And there are plenty of examples of people who exist just outside of the mainstream advocating for the criminal punishment and even death of homosexuals based on their religious believes and these people have become more and more bold over the last ~2 years.

We've had literal Nazis taking to the streets with torches, people associated with that movement absolutely led to the "ending the existence" of at least one person, her name was Heather Heyer.

No friend, I am not "off the deep end", your head is in the sand.

 

[MT_Sninho]

The problem, as I see it, is the normalization of the type of ideology that Liberty was founded on and continues to push. Its the same as when the President sits down with a foreign dictator without condemning the dictators actions. In many people's eyes, that dictator then goes from being an evil monster committing human rights violations to just someone trying to run their country the best way they know how.

By being inclusive of Liberty University's athletics, you're normalizing their ideology and putting those ideals on the same level as any other school's.

Additionally, Liberty University is not trying to distance itself from Jerry Falwell and his teachings anytime soon. They invoke his name and vision in their mission statement.

http://www.liberty.edu/aboutliberty/index.cfm?PID=6899

I have no interest in having my alma mater associated with them in athletics or anything else.

 

[dukewayne]

For starters, anti-semitic is just laughable. There is hardly a more pro Israel and pro Jewish people in America than those conservative protestant Christians.

This thread has done gone off the rails, so why not speak up. When the typical old and tired "tolerant" hypocritical attitudes come out and continue to hate and spread half-truths and lies about other groups of people in the name of tolerance, those ideas and ideologies must be challenged as time has demonstrated the violence done to those they have demonized and dehumanized.

It didn't take long for those who view themselves as morally superior in their outrage and hatred of others to start to expose themselves. Their two prime targets, as always Christians, and lately Trump. Ironically, I remember the days of many years ago when so much of the dislike and outrage towards Falwell were claimed on the grounds he judged and discriminated out of some morally superior attitude. Over the years to this day, it appears that the outrage and hatred toward anything Falwell is connected to people expressing an attitude that comes off as morally superior. When you let the hate of someone who hates others take hold and fester in you, you end up becoming that very thing you abhorred. Hate is hate rather it be in the racist or the person who deceptively convinces himself to embrace hating the person who hates (i.e. the racist).

Do some of you who have fallen for these lies and deception even ever have any doubts or thoughts in your own mind that you are being severely propagandized and deceived? Can you even rationally discuss these serious matters with others particularly those with whom you may disagree in a way that does not hate, belittle, or otherwise dehumanize those with whom you disagree?

This isn't about winning some political argument. This is about finding a way to live together in the same nation while disagreeing on wide ranging issues but doing so peacefully and without tearing apart people, groups of people, and our country generally.

 

[crposton]

So when someone disagrees with gay marriage based on religious beliefs they are "intolerant". You disagreeing with their beliefs is not "intolerant" because their beliefs are "intolerant" by nature and you are just "intolerant" towards "intolerant" people?

That makes sense. Glad that has been cleared up. Good thing we have the arbiter of what is just being intolerant and what is being intolerant of people that are intolerant.

 

[zreed]

So when someone disagrees with gay marriage based on religious beliefs they are "intolerant". You disagreeing with their beliefs is not "intolerant" because their beliefs are "intolerant" by nature and you are just "intolerant" towards "intolerant" people?

That makes sense. Glad that has been cleared up. Good thing we have the arbiter of what is just being intolerant and what is being intolerant of people that are intolerant.

Yes. That accurately sums it up, facetious as you were being.

Look, two people getting married is literally none of your business.

I love the mentality of conservatives which is largely a smaller government is a better government, until they want the government to use their personally held religious believes to say who can and can't get married.

If you wish to live your life based on a book written thousands of years ago, over a period of ~1500 years, and believe that through all that time, through countless authors and even more translations, that is the infallible word of your creator, while cherry picking which commands are more important in the 21st century(God hates people eating shrimp and mixing fabrics more than gays ya know...) be my guest, but do not try to make people who do not follow your religion live by your nonsense.

The reason my "intolerance" is different than your intolerance is you are attempting to subjugate the rights of others, I am not doing so.

Your aim is to take rights from people that have zero effect on you, my aim is to make sure those rights are upheld.

Don't "agree with gay marriage"? Don't marry a gay person. That's the only way gay marriage would effect you.

 

[zreed]

For starters, anti-semitic is just laughable. There is hardly a more pro Israel and pro Jewish people in America than those conservative protestant Christians.

"When he[the antichrist] appears during the Tribulation period he will be a full-grown counterfeit of Christ,” Falwell told followers at a Tennessee gathering. “Of course he’ll be Jewish.”

 

[stuckinthemiddle2]

For starters, anti-semitic is just laughable. There is hardly a more pro Israel and pro Jewish people in America than those conservative protestant Christians.

This thread has done gone off the rails, so why not speak up. When the typical old and tired "tolerant" hypocritical attitudes come out and continue to hate and spread half-truths and lies about other groups of people in the name of tolerance, those ideas and ideologies must be challenged as time has demonstrated the violence done to those they have demonized and dehumanized.

It didn't take long for those who view themselves as morally superior in their outrage and hatred of others to start to expose themselves. Their two prime targets, as always Christians, and lately Trump. Ironically, I remember the days of many years ago when so much of the dislike and outrage towards Falwell were claimed on the grounds he judged and discriminated out of some morally superior attitude. Over the years to this day, it appears that the outrage and hatred toward anything Falwell is connected to people expressing an attitude that comes off as morally superior. When you let the hate of someone who hates others take hold and fester in you, you end up becoming that very thing you abhorred. Hate is hate rather it be in the racist or the person who deceptively convinces himself to embrace hating the person who hates (i.e. the racist).

Do some of you who have fallen for these lies and deception even ever have any doubts or thoughts in your own mind that you are being severely propagandized and deceived? Can you even rationally discuss these serious matters with others particularly those with whom you may disagree in a way that does not hate, belittle, or otherwise dehumanize those with whom you disagree?

This isn't about winning some political argument. This is about finding a way to live together in the same nation while disagreeing on wide ranging issues but doing so peacefully and without tearing apart people, groups of people, and our country generally.

Those neo-nazi alt-right white nationalists are the exact opposite of pro-Jewish or pro-Israel. But they certainly are loyal to trump and the republican party.

Examples:

City workers removed white nationalist stickers and anti-Semitic posters from downtown...
https://www.heraldsun.com/news/local/counties/durham-county/article210211194.html

from conservative Fox News...
Republican Rep. Steve King is facing backlash after he publicly endorsed a white nationalist candidate for mayor in Toronto.
...she joined a podcast affiliated with the neo-Nazi Daily Stormer.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/st...spousing-white-nationalist-anti-semitic-views

 

[dukewayne]

Don't "agree with gay marriage"? Don't marry a gay person. That's the only way gay marriage would effect you.

Tell that to the county clerk lady who was thrown in jail for not marrying homosexual couples. Tell that to small business shop owners who were heavily fined for not wanting to take part in homosexual marriage festivities.

I would also suspect it is only a matter of time until some homosexual folks go into a church and demand that they be married by the church. If and when they refuse, what do you think is going to happen? I'm sure homosexual marriage won't affect those church folks.

 

[zreed]

Tell that to the county clerk lady who was thrown in jail for not marrying homosexual couples. Tell that to small business shop owners who were heavily fined for not wanting to take part in homosexual marriage festivities.

I would also suspect it is only a matter of time until some homosexual folks go into a church and demand that they be married by the church. If and when they refuse, what do you think is going to happen? I'm sure homosexual marriage won't affect those church folks.

Oh wow...

Kim Davis should have been thrown in jail because she refused to do her job.

You support her "protesting" during her job, how do you feel about Colin Kaepernick?

How does making a cake for a gay couple negatively impact you?

How is denying service to people on account of their sexual orientation any different than refusing someone service based on their race, or religion come to that?

If I wanted to refuse service in my small business to Christians, you'd be fine with that?

The same people that are so fond of the term "snowflake" and telling people they need a "safe space" are enraged by the idea of two people who love one another getting married?

And no, no one is going to force any church to marry two people they don't want to. A church can do whatever it wants, but Kim Davis was a public servant and businesses aren't allowed to discriminate on account of race, age, gender, disability, religion etc. why do you believe sexual orientation is different?

 

[MTFNBY5]

IIRC my first time to post in the "Around the Water Cooler" forum. I try to stay away (rarely even read) because of the divisiveness here (at one time virtually all right-wing - now a few on the other side) which IMHO does little to promote MT athletics.
Regardless, I very much wanted to post in this thread and now that it is moved into this forum (where it clearly belongs based on where the thread had gone) I feel somewhat better about stating my position. I come to my attitude on the subject as a supporter of public education, a product of K-12 public education, a graduate with 3 degrees from a public university, parent of public school graduates from K through graduate degrees, and as someone who has had a dozen or more relatives (and many close friends) who have been public educators. I lived through the 60s, the changes which were brought about, and the reactions to those changes which occurred as a result. The advent of the growth of right-wing fundamentalist Christianity, the establishment of private schools as a response to desegregation, the movement rightward of the SBC, and the rise of Jerry Falwell all came about (along with many other responses) to what was seen by some as negative changes in the country. I was there as a witness.
Moving to the topic at hand: Jerry Falwell was a racist - that point cannot be debated if one listens to his sermons and acknowledges that Lester Maddox and George Wallace were guests on his weekly show from Thomas Road Baptist Church. Additionally his first foray into education, against all his protests, was a segregation academy. Lynchburg Christian Academy, now Liberty Christian Academy, was a stepping stone to the university. Falwell was no friend to public education. I once heard a sermon which astounded me. You would have thought public schools were filled with all manner of filth and evil and not a Christian employed in any of them. He clearly didn't describe the public servants I knew and the public schools they toiled in.
As for Falwell, Jr. I see him as nothing more than a ideologue and a political opportunist who has no qualifications to be a university president other than he inherited the position.
I do not want my publicly-supported university to have anything to do with a a school founded on a mischaracterization of public education. Falwell vowed to make LU the "Notre Dame" of right-wing protestant Christianity and the financial support from his TV evangelism has helped the cause. No doubt LU has money and support from many who agree with the focus, image, and mission of the school. And yes, they have outstanding facilities and have made great strides athletically in a short time. As with many private high schools LU hopes to not only create legitimacy through it's athletic program but also to promote the validity of their philosophy by winning.
I was upset when Insell hired an assistant with a connection to Liberty. I am clearly not happy that we have BB coaches with a history at LU. But it is the FB contract with LU that I find abhorrent. I have made it known to the powers that be at MTSU that I will withdraw all support (ticket purchases, BRAA membership, and donations to the foundation) during the years when LU is on the schedule, not that my meager contributions will make a difference. Whether or not I resume support is questionable.

 

[dukewayne]

So much for that only way gay marriage would effect you thing.

In jail for not doing her job??? So, it's jail for people who don't do their job when it comes to homosexual marriage. But don't worry it won't effect people at church. You've already changed your assessment quickly on who will be effected, we'll see how long that lasts with the churches.

I started to make point by point arguments and responses. Then I went back and deleted almost all of it as I realized that rational reasonable discussion or debate isn't even being sought as outraged mockery is what is usually being offered. Then again, that was sort of the point from the beginning of this topic. Outrage, intolerance, and even hatred are reserved for those who might disagree with leftist orthodoxy. To that, I don't know that there is anything I can really add to make a difference. So I'll leave a passage of Scripture that speaks far better than I.

Romans 1:18-23 (NIV)

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

 

[zreed]

Oh wow...

When you are a public servant, you serve the public, that means everyone and under the laws of this country, two men or two women have just as much right to marry as anyone. Kim Davis, in an elected position, chose not to serve the public, was given plenty of time to do her job and she refused.

If your religion prevents you from serving the public, you have no business being a public servant, just as a kosher Jew would have no business working in a pork processing plant, unless of course they were willing to not let their religious beliefs interfere with their job.

As for your scripture, I couldn't care less as that is not my religion and I am not interested in your "wrath"(what a great guy your god sounds like...), but I am glad you chose to go in that direction as that is what this conversation is actually about, people like you believing your religion has the answers for people that aren't followers.

It's funny that you're concerned about our government getting involved in your religion, but you have no issue with your religion getting all up in our government.

I understand and support the separation of church and state, I guess you do not.

 

[zreed]

So much for that only way gay marriage would effect you thing.

In jail for not doing her job??? So, it's jail for people who don't do their job when it comes to homosexual marriage.

On the good news front Kim Davis has been voted out of office, as a private citizen, she will now be free to discriminate as she pleases.