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I hope you don't need to drive to work...

BlueRaiderFan

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Oct 4, 2003
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20 states now take away the drivers license of persons that have fallen behind on their student loan payments. Now, I know that some of you will feel the urge to post about "Don't play with snakes" and "personal responsibility," both of which have some merit, but do you know what else has some merit? Seeing a messed up situation and calling your congressional rep, or writing them an email. Do the right thing instead of placing blame and making judgements, because I'm fairly certain that all of you have made your mistakes in life in other areas. Stop judging and start doing something to help.
 
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That says Professional Licenses. Different than a drivers license. As bad or worse than taking your drivers license though.
 
20 states now take away the drivers license of persons that have fallen behind on their student loan payments. Now, I know that some of you will feel the urge to post about "Don't play with snakes" and "personal responsibility," both of which have some merit, but do you know what else has some merit? Seeing a messed up situation and calling your congressional rep, or writing them an email. Do the right thing instead of placing blame and making judgements, because I'm fairly certain that all of you have made your mistakes in life in other areas. Stop judging and start doing something to help.

Marco Rubio wrote and co-sponsored the bill to stop this. And it was bipartisan, Elizabeth Warren co-sponsored.

And of the 20 states that can take your licenses, several are controlled by liberal majorities.

But feel free to keep posting year old articles and somehow blame conservatives for this.
 
Marco Rubio wrote and co-sponsored the bill to stop this. And it was bipartisan, Elizabeth Warren co-sponsored.

And of the 20 states that can take your licenses, several are controlled by liberal majorities.

But feel free to keep posting year old articles and somehow blame conservatives for this.


Those evil Freedom Caucus Conservatives in Texas....already trying to stop this.
 
Where in here did I say which party was to blame? I did call some of you on this board out for your lack of sympathy and compassion. You guys really don't do well in the critical thinking area...
 
Where in here did I say which party was to blame? I did call some of you on this board out for your lack of sympathy and compassion. You guys really don't do well in the critical thinking area...

You literally posted a thread in this forum complaining about how DeVos made it worse on people defaulting on student loans and said, gotta love those conservative values. That’s linking conservatives to the cause of the problem. You attacked conservative beliefs and comments in this forum and you literally told Mike his stance (which you said was the conservative in the past) enables companies to take advantage of loanees, furthering the problem. This links conservatism with the problem.


Here is the deal. I honestly did not know about the lack of bankruptcy protection for student loans prior to your threads & I was unaware of some of the obstacles, like the license forfeiture laws that need to be addressed. Even though student loans are self-inflicted, I see regulations that should be changed. However, the way you present the problem causes me to lose sympathy. Reading these threads, you are a jerk to people who don't deserve it. You may not realize this and I am sure you will have some smartelic comment, but this is a fact - the way you go about things hurts your stance more than it helps. When I read your comments, it does not make we want to contact a congressman about it, it is 100% the opposite. You are part of the problem, because now I want to see whatever you don't want to happen occur to spite you. If you want to be part of the solution, try being less of what you present in this forum.

And since your question was, where did you say which party was to blame? You did not. You have blamed conservative values and conservative ideology for part enabling or creating more of this problem which I posted links to conservatives actually trying to stop the problem. I said nothing specifically about the GOP or Democratic party - I said conservatives and liberal....critical thinking area, right?
 
DeVos is culpable, but that was a different thread specifically about her and she was appointed by a conservative president and she is making things worse than before, so the additional issues that she is causing does fall on Trump's shoulders.
 
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As far as my attitude it begins and ends with yours and I have no issue with addressing people that have no sympathy for others... People that are so perfect in all aspects of their lives they they can point fingers. Sorry, but Mike may not have made any serious financial mistakes, but I guarantee you he isn't perfect. So, before he goes judging others, he should consider his own faults. They may be in other areas, but he isn't perfect and what he thinks is correct behavior isn't the truth for everyone. It's his opinion.
 
You see Mike's focus was on what he viewed as her mistake. He had little or no compassion about the fact that she was having her social security garnished.
 
As far as my attitude it begins and ends with yours and I have no issue with addressing people that have no sympathy for others... People that are so perfect in all aspects of their lives they they can point fingers. Sorry, but Mike may not have made any serious financial mistakes, but I guarantee you he isn't perfect. So, before he goes judging others, he should consider his own faults. They may be in other areas, but he isn't perfect and what he thinks is correct behavior isn't the truth for everyone. It's his opinion.

I love the deflection to me, ignore the questions from RaiderDawg and blame me, stay classy BRF.

The fact that you can't see her irresponsibility and lack of what might go wrong is scary. She's not a kid, she's a woman in her 50s with a degree.

Just so we are clear, I have in fact made many financial mistakes and its from those I have learned the hard way...I am now in my 50s. I will make future mistakes but they will not be the ones I have painfully learned from.
 
You see Mike's focus was on what he viewed as her mistake. He had little or no compassion about the fact that she was having her social security garnished.

No you perceived I didn't have compassion. I can have compassion on her but still say what she did was wrong.

I told you I am willing to add to a GoFundMe account for this woman if you will set it up and make the first donation and I will double yours.
 
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First of all, it's your OPINION that she was being irresponsible. You aren't judge and jury, Mike. Secondly, you can say you have compassion but the bulk of your focus was on her perceived make. Have you called your rep, Mike, to address the issue of SS garnishment? You should.
 
First of all, it's your OPINION that she was being irresponsible. You aren't judge and jury, Mike. Secondly, you can say you have compassion but the bulk of your focus was on her perceived make. Have you called your rep, Mike, to address the issue of SS garnishment? You should.

I know this was to Mike, but to this point:

The SS garnishment is sad....but take the emotion out of this for a minute and think about it. SS is not a benefit or entitlement (even though these words are used regularly), it is an insurance program. It was designed as insurance so elderly would have some income after retirement. The US govt is acting as the insurance company. If you take out a loan at any insurance company and default on repaying it, would you expect that same entity to payout out full benefits on an insurance policy? I would not, I would expect them to attempt to recoup some of their losses to me on loan account from the insurance account. That is exactly what is happening here. It is sad what the consequences of her decisions are, but I do not fault the loaning entity from trying to recoup losses.
 
First of all, it's your OPINION that she was being irresponsible. You aren't judge and jury, Mike. Secondly, you can say you have compassion but the bulk of your focus was on her perceived make. Have you called your rep, Mike, to address the issue of SS garnishment? You should.

Your just fighting to fight now...Why can't you admit that what she did was irresponsible?

I'd love to do social work, as a 50 something male I can't because I have a family to care for, a wife to provide for after I die. So I have to help others in my off hours. Personally, I am not going to pester a govt official because I've taken that route on other issues before (this particular issue is complicated)...I am going to HELP the person I see directly who is in need.

So lets do something tangible...something that will be felt. Lets send her some money today! Please send me the GoFund link and I will now triple your match.
 
Look... Lenders have a responsibility as well. If they are lending to someone, they need to realize that there is a risk inherent to that loan. They shouldn't lend if they can't assume risk. Also, anyone that thinks that a person should ever, under any circumstances, have their social security garnished should never call themselves caring, sympathetic, or otherwise.
 
Look... Lenders have a responsibility as well. If they are lending to someone, they need to realize that there is a risk inherent to that loan. They shouldn't lend if they can't assume risk. Also, anyone that thinks that a person should ever, under any circumstances, have their social security garnished should never call themselves caring, sympathetic, or otherwise.

This isn't normal lending...it is back by the US government...no other loans are similar. The US govt is back up by the tax payer, that is you and me. It is money that under normal circumstances you would not be able to borrow.

Stop acting like student loans are the same a credit card.
 
Look... Lenders have a responsibility as well. If they are lending to someone, they need to realize that there is a risk inherent to that loan. They shouldn't lend if they can't assume risk. Also, anyone that thinks that a person should ever, under any circumstances, have their social security garnished should never call themselves caring, sympathetic, or otherwise.

No, federal lenders don’t have responsibility. They can’t deny people student loans unless your income is too high or you are not at least a 1/2 time part-time student. All they can do is adjust the amount they offer. So this point of your argument is wrong.

The legal ability to garnish SS benefits for owing the govt money or failing to pay child support has been around 64 years. The ability to garnish for student loan debt is 22 years old. This isn’t new. Maybe you can ask Bill why he signed the Debt Collection act adding student loans. People have options including income-based repayment plans with automatic forgiveness as well.


I still have yet to see a good argument why people should receive full insurance payouts from an entity they owe money.
 
You either have no moral issue with keeping people in debt when they are insolvent or you do. Mighty Christian of you to see that you don't mind them having their SS garnished because it's your money.
 
You either have no moral issue with keeping people in debt when they are insolvent or you do. Mighty Christian of you to see that you don't mind them having their SS garnished because it's your money.

First, come up with something other than trying to attack a persons christian values since your judgement of my or another’s values is your opinion and you have repeatedly told Mike that opinions, such as mentioning student loan irresponsibility and the responsibility to pay debts, are just opinions that can be discarded.


Once again, you still have not addressed the question-Why should a person expect to receive full insurance payouts from an entity they money?
 
First of all, it's not classified as insurance... That alone pretty much nullifies your argument. But, let's say that it is, for one thing, why WOULDN'T you get paid full payment for something you PAID for?
 
First of all, it's not classified as insurance... That alone pretty much nullifies your argument. But, let's say that it is, for one thing, why WOULDN'T you get paid full payment for something you PAID for?

Only that's not how it works...the money we pay in today goes out to the people receiving it today...its not held for us. The law is changed all the time and the tax rate increases. For folks that are in their 70s today (such as the lady we've discussed for two weeks), they paid much less % wise than we do today.
 
We all pay into the system with our money, but this entire line of Argument is deflection from the fact that you either support the immoral stance of keeping a person in debt for life or you don't and obviously you don't have an issue with it. How kind of you.
 
First of all, it's not classified as insurance... That alone pretty much nullifies your argument. But, let's say that it is, for one thing, why WOULDN'T you get paid full payment for something you PAID for?



1. From the Social Security Act of 1939:

"The Board shall perform the duties imposed uponit by this Act and shall also have the duty of studying and making recommendations as to the most effective methods of providing eco- nomic security through social insurance."

What does the law itself say it is creating....economic security through social...what's that word?

Here are some other descriptors of the social security....

"Social Security is an important part of the Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance program."

"The suspicion stems in part from a misunderstanding about what Social Security is. It's not a retirement savings program; it's an insurance plan designed to help the elderly, the disabled and their families stay out of poverty."

2. Mike is 100% right. People absolute did not pay directly for their benefits. We are paying to the prior generation and based on laws a person may qualify for more or less than they contributed.

3. You have told us our stances on personal responsibility and taking on foolish debt is an OPINION and judgmental, yet you state your OPINION it is immoral as it is a fact. You bash us personally for disagreeing with your OPINION.

Like I said before, I actually learned something from these posts and sympathize with these people, but your unwillingness to answer questions directly and your way of being a real prick towards people here that disagree with you and attacking people personally for disagreeing with your OPINION causes me to have disdain about this topic. Especially the way you attacked Mike's morals for his posts.... I now actually hope you or a close family member defaults on a student loan and has their SS garnished.
 
I don't give a damn what you hope. You and Mike don't care for the plight of others. You use every excuse you can find to avoid the fact that you don't care if another person is enslaved to a debt for life. It's morally repugnant. Have fun pretending to be a nice person.
 
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Robert David Steele claims that student loan debt and elderly medical debt are going to be be forgiven - about 3 trillion in total.

 
The amusing part of this thread is BRF's moral high ground of those in the realm of debt forgiveness.

I have been working since I turned 16. In my earlier years as an unskilled worker, I saw so much leeching from the government that I have become numb. I have lost thousands of dollars to people who blame everyone else except themselves. I just don't see where people can't work their way out of most financial messes. Get two jobs. Get three. Deliver food. Mow grass. Work your 8-5 and then go work 6-10 at Kroger.

Yeah, that is crazy talk.
 
Get three jobs in your sixties? That's an especially dumb and not very sympathetic post, John. You and people like you are the reason we are having these issues. You don't bother to think. Also, there are tens of thousands of people out there that literally have physical and mental disabilities that prevent them from doing so. Many of us can, but many can't and the fact that you don't realize this is telling. You guys need to think about the fact that it's often not a question of getting a second job because the problem can't be solved that way for many.
 
I am extremely sympathetic to those with mental and medical needs. If that is the case then I am all for doing what needs to be done to help. I have volunteered in helping the grounds for people that live in areas that are actually lower than section 8 housing. Getting to know the people and how my approach to life is completely different from theirs definitely opened my eyes.

For example, if I am a working somewhere...and my manager says to me..."you did a great job..." but then finishes up the conversation with something like "maybe you can do this part better because it will be a better approach." The people that I met at these places have had so many stumbles in life that their mental approach will hone in on that they are a terrible. One thing the indigent doesn't need is for someone to tell them that they just need to work or do things better. I get that...these people are the most preached to people in the world.

Mental health is more difficult because you can look at able bodied people and not know that their illness is in their mind. Which that is a real thing.

On the other hand, the system is whacked if an elderly person on a fixed or near fixed income can apply and be lent 30-40 thousand dollars and not understand how to pay it back. It sounds like there is transparency missing somewhere.

But understand my position too. I have seen, firsthand, people take advantage of me, the system. I have heard and seen more people blame everyone else and abuse the system wholeheartedly.

I have worked 70-80s a week in periods of my life to do the needful. I have had to seek care at Vanderbilt for a condition that local community hospitals couldn't diagnose for almost a decade. Everyone has problems. This sounds awful, but those that think they are the only one that has problems needs to "get in line" at the problem desk. I'm always thinking. I'm not a hard liner. I'm just a realist.
 
Then you understand that it's an issue in our society that tens of thousands are having their social security garnished, correct? You see, I post this issue and I get every response except "That's wrong and I'm going to call my rep." . It's also wrong that the forgiveness rate for them is below .01% for those that are elderly, insolvent, insane, etc to be kept in a debt that they have no hope of paying off. This is not the country that I grew up in. If you can't take people filing for bankruptcy, then don't lend the money. Lenders must be allowed to assume risk when lending, or the entire system breaks down, as it has now.
 
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As for me, I can work two or three jobs. I'm not bringing this up for my benefit. I wish you people would do the right thing and join the movement and call your reps. Join Student Loan Justice on Facebook or at StudentLoanJustice.org.
 
The amusing part of this thread is BRF's moral high ground of those in the realm of debt forgiveness.

I have been working since I turned 16. In my earlier years as an unskilled worker, I saw so much leeching from the government that I have become numb. I have lost thousands of dollars to people who blame everyone else except themselves. I just don't see where people can't work their way out of most financial messes. Get two jobs. Get three. Deliver food. Mow grass. Work your 8-5 and then go work 6-10 at Kroger.

Yeah, that is crazy talk.

Most everyone at some point in their life will get into trouble financially (Murphy's Law)...including me. In my late 30s with two small children my company failed (around 2003ish)...I lost my company and my income and all the money I poured into (which was all my money).

I had to get a new job with another company immediately because I had zero income and no savings and bills to pay, this was a job that if I had time and a little cushion I wouldn't have taken. After 6 months we were barely making ends meet. So I got a second job cleaning carpet at night. This carpet job meant after working from 8-5, I came home with the family, ate dinner and spent time with the kids and slept from 9 to 1:30am. Then I cleaned carpet from 2-7am. Ironically, the carpet I cleaned for the first 4 months were all the new apartments close to campus...I was cleaning the carpet of a lot of students who were living there on borrowed money to attend school (irony). I did this for about 14 months....it was hard and I was tired a lot but I survived. Finally, I found a better job that I still do today and let the carpet cleaning job go...I worked 65-80 hours a week for a bit more than a year.

Losing my company, my job and going through this taught me lessons that I will never forget. It also showed me that if I am in trouble I can find a way through it. It gave me a confidence as a man that I didn't have before hand.

This option is available to all who will go find it, especially today, in the Middle Tennessee area there has never been as much work available as there is today.

I want to help those truly in need, but its hard to see so many in society that simply will not sacrifice to solve the problems and trouble that come their way.
 
Get three jobs in your sixties? That's an especially dumb and not very sympathetic post, John. You and people like you are the reason we are having these issues. You don't bother to think. Also, there are tens of thousands of people out there that literally have physical and mental disabilities that prevent them from doing so. Many of us can, but many can't and the fact that you don't realize this is telling. You guys need to think about the fact that it's often not a question of getting a second job because the problem can't be solved that way for many.

I think all of us are willing to help those that really are in need...this is subset of people. You keep bringing this up, and we are not talking about mentally ill people that cannot work.

Many of the examples you bring up are folks that have made poor decisions...they aren't ill. Or just because they are ill today doesn't mean they will always be ill or their isn't another way.

The govt is not a kind organization...there is no heart there. And the govt cannot be the back stop for every issue or suffering for the people of the country. I think more of these problems can be solved by family/church/community taking care of each other. Then people banding together...the govt should be the last resort.

Every time we question you on this you default to this idea that we don't care, or we are unsympathetic - this is simply not true.
 
Ok, Mike, but in the post I mentioned a lady that was having her SOCIAL SECURITY garnished. Ok, so let's say you can take the moral high ground because of your outstanding work ethic. We'll ignore the fact that many have done that much and more and still failed. Let me ask you, have you ever been forgiven for something that you did wrong? Of course you have. We all have. That's the point. The lady made a stupid mistake in her fifties and now she's paying for it in her sixties. Shouldn't forgiveness be a part of her equation? I think so, but the first response from you was what she could have of should have done. Well, what could you or should you have done about your mistakes? You see, you are focused on the financial side of this, but the point is we've all been forgiven for mistakes that we never corrected or made right.
 
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