FOOTBALL Hawaii

JohnDavidBlue

All American
Sep 10, 2005
4,156
2,345
113
An act of good faith from the leadership would do wonders. Their tone deafness is something else.

However, You can’t dismiss the blunders from coaching, conferences, and facilities. It’s been something to witness, I’ll say that.

I have met a small portion of people on here that are blue to the bone. Going back years… Some of us hopped on the train big time when we jumped to FBS. I think this site has become a whipping post of sorts and that’s ok.

I hope we whip SDSU and the end the season on a high note.
 

SpaceRaider

Blue Raider Legend
Gold Member
Jul 22, 2001
74,515
6,157
113
God's Country
If you think it is toxic now (I call it righteous indignation) just wait five years from when Stock is still hanging on with extensions through the middle of the next decade. I guarantee MT fans will still not have seen a conference championship out of the program. The real toxicity exists within Cope and Murphy Center, also the BoT. The leadership has lost all credibility.

People have passed judgement on the football program under Stockstill. You can tell by all the empty seats. It's not just a handful of disgruntled fans on the internet, facebook, twitter, and god knows where else fans feel the urge to speak freely.
 

dukewayne

All American
Jul 11, 2008
2,522
1,361
113
Someone asked why some of us are still on here. The above post by JohnDavidBlue is a prime reminder to me of one of the main reasons why I still frequent this board.

He is but one of a number of people on here that I have known for decades either in person, by screen name, or a combination of both. While I still think this internet stuff is a newfangled technology, I still see this as some sort of community. Perhaps a newfangled community or meeting space, but a community nonetheless to which I'm grateful for the opportunity to keep up with folks that I have known over the years.

H*ll, I even remember when Wiley was just a young whippersnaper around here. Now look at him. Maturing and all grown up.

So yes, I'm not happy about the way MT is being run. I do hope for a better and improved future for MT. As is the case for universities in the culture of this part of the country, football happens to be the centerpiece or lightning rod for connection to the broader university community.

In the meantime, at least basketball provides some level of interest and entertainment despite my doubts and concerns regarding the larger university leadership.

Anyways, it's the people around here that keeps me coming back.
 

FranklinRaider315

All American
Jun 24, 2009
4,796
3,052
113
Franklin, TN
You wanna see toxic? Go read some of the replies to SpaceRaider’s posting of Massaro’s Twitter announcement about accepting the invitation to the Hawaii Bowl. Brutal stuff except for Murphy. 😂😂. See next post #87
 

MIDTENN05

Blue Raider
May 9, 2012
122
152
43
Top 5 season if we win the bowl game, it is what it is. We are who we are. I said it’s great, to be, from middle Tennessee!

Only reason I’m here is it’s the most consistent and concise central point of information for all things mt sports/university related.

Once we win a natty, or at least a conference championship I might quit my day job and bring back blueraiderzone, charge 8 bucks a month like Elon, used to love the bickering between them and here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BRaiderDave

MT01

All Conference
Aug 1, 2005
1,442
1,793
113
First and foremost. Everything Space said. Bullseye. That said, there are obvious benefits to this bowl game primarily due to time slot and benefits it provides to recruiting. It's clearly the best of "our" bowl options. I actually see this as a benefit for the players for sure. A side note, I don't even believe a conference that has teams playing predominantly in the central and eastern time zone should even have Hawaii Bowl as a tie in. It should be a MWC vs Pac 12 game.

The part that makes this a tough pill to swallow is that the last nine times we have been bowl eligible, in two thirds of those we've either sat at home (twice) or played OCONUS (four times). Only three times have we played inside the CONUS for bowl game over the past decade since joining this league. Meanwhile no other program has done it more than once (although UAB will be the first to make a second trip to the Bahamas this year). We will have now gone to Hawaii twice and Bahamas twice when no other team in the league has had to go to both places even once.

They can lay it at the hands of ESPN and the league all they want but at some point their words have to match their actions. And so far that still hasn't happened. They are still making decisions that throws the "middle" finger at the alumni and fans at a time they say they want to build blue and bring people back. Unfortunately, they don't make alumni and fans a priority. Understanding and reading your customer base is a core value. Obviously, our leadership doesn't understand values. If they did, their communication would reflect that understanding instead of trying to redirect blame.
 

MT01

All Conference
Aug 1, 2005
1,442
1,793
113
Allow me to rewrite Chris' statement for him.

After consultation with ESPN and Commissioner's office with C-USA, the Hawaii Bowl graciously extended an offer for us to play on the 20th Anniversary of the first Hawaii Bowl. Although our team and coaches are very excited for this opportunity, I recognize this is the fourth time in the past eight years that we have been invited to a bowl game off the mainland, which makes it incredibly difficult for our fans. Although I share the concerns this outcome could be frustrating to our fans, our conversations with our league office and television partner resulted in the Hawaii Bowl emerging as the most viable option. In accepting this invitation, we have asked the league office to recognize our fan's sacrifice and to ensure a preferred bowl destination next year after we win the Conference USA championship.
 

sWiley

Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Jul 25, 2012
5,933
2,805
113
I remember not too long ago wishing and hoping for a bowl invite in the SBC. Every bowl used to get a banner. Now, we complain because its not the bowl we want.
Comparing early 2000's post season bowl games to the current day bowl structure is disingenuous at best.

The SBC was a 1 bowl deal so of course it was a huge deal to make that one available bowl game because it was basically rewarded to the conference champion. Getting to a bowl game back then was much more respected because it was much more difficult vs. today's standards.

Right around the time of hiring Stockstill, the expansion of crappy bowls commenced. Several new bowl games have been added since then allowing for any 6-6 team or better and even some 5-7 teams to go to a bowl.

Let's be honest with ourselves here, unless you are playing in a meaningful bowl then nobody cares and it doesn't mean anything. Sure, it's a great experience for the players, but the name of the game is conference championships and winning marquee bowl games.
 

MidTennMtneer

All Conference
Gold Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,677
1,640
113
Comparing early 2000's post season bowl games to the current day bowl structure is disingenuous at best.

The SBC was a 1 bowl deal so of course it was a huge deal to make that one available bowl game because it was basically rewarded to the conference champion. Getting to a bowl game back then was much more respected because it was much more difficult vs. today's standards.

Right around the time of hiring Stockstill, the expansion of crappy bowls commenced. Several new bowl games have been added since then allowing for any 6-6 team or better and even some 5-7 teams to go to a bowl.

Let's be honest with ourselves here, unless you are playing in a meaningful bowl then nobody cares and it doesn't mean anything. Sure, it's a great experience for the players, but the name of the game is conference championships and winning marquee bowl games.
100%.
41 bowls now, so 82 out of 131 teams make it. That's 62%. You can't even say "the top half" anymore.

I still firmly believe it should be knocked down, the whole structure changed when the new playoff starts, and only 7-5 or better teams make it. Period. Issue is there are plenty of G5s at times that a conf champ game includes a 7-5 with $ games being played causing extra losses. I guess technically even if a 6-6 won a conf champ it would be 7-6 so still a winning record. Yeah, details to be worked out. :)

Like you said, that leaves Conference Championships which is what EVERY G5 should be shooting for. Especially with the new playoff as it takes the highest rated Conference Champ to make it.

It does make you wonder if the bowl affiliations could change with the new CUSA. Not sure how long the agreements are for. The new TV deal helps that though I guess since it all is under the ESPN umbrella.

It is even sad for some G5 conf champs. If I was UTSA or say Coastal wins the SBC, I'd be fighting to play each other, not some other 8-4 team. Let two G5 champs duke it out. MAC vs MWC. etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RaiderDeez

MTFAN61

Blue Raider Fan
Silver Member
Aug 11, 2022
416
504
93
No matter what anyone on this message board believes, the fact is that the PUBLIC does not believe the product is worth wasting time or money on, which should tell you everything you need to know.

Comparing early 2000's post season bowl games to the current day bowl structure is disingenuous at best.

The SBC was a 1 bowl deal so of course it was a huge deal to make that one available bowl game because it was basically rewarded to the conference champion. Getting to a bowl game back then was much more respected because it was much more difficult vs. today's standards.

Right around the time of hiring Stockstill, the expansion of crappy bowls commenced. Several new bowl games have been added since then allowing for any 6-6 team or better and even some 5-7 teams to go to a bowl.

Let's be honest with ourselves here, unless you are playing in a meaningful bowl then nobody cares and it doesn't mean anything. Sure, it's a great experience for the players, but the name of the game is conference championships and winning marquee bowl games.
Pretty much my feelings, really that big a deal? Murfreesboro is a city of 160,000 people. MT a university of another 20,000. We've had multiple multiple bowls since thousands of fans made it to the New Orleans bowl trip win over Southern Miss. Honestly there's been so many discontented fans since then, when is the last time a large mass of thousands of fans have been to a MT bowl game? If Kentucky had a nice stadium with a Beech Bend Bowl a 100 miles away, would we even have 500 to show up? Most of us would start cursing about who wants to go to a fake sand beech in the middle of winter & still not go out of anger toward the administration & coaching staff. Let the kids enjoy their trip to Hawaii, but I do feel bad for the 100 fans or so who would have made a trip to a southern coastal bowl.
 

AustinLewis

Hall of Famer
Staff
Sep 16, 2006
6,517
1,326
113
100%.
41 bowls now, so 82 out of 131 teams make it. That's 62%. You can't even say "the top half" anymore.

I still firmly believe it should be knocked down, the whole structure changed when the new playoff starts, and only 7-5 or better teams make it. Period. Issue is there are plenty of G5s at times that a conf champ game includes a 7-5 with $ games being played causing extra losses. I guess technically even if a 6-6 won a conf champ it would be 7-6 so still a winning record. Yeah, details to be worked out. :)

Like you said, that leaves Conference Championships which is what EVERY G5 should be shooting for. Especially with the new playoff as it takes the highest rated Conference Champ to make it.

It does make you wonder if the bowl affiliations could change with the new CUSA. Not sure how long the agreements are for. The new TV deal helps that though I guess since it all is under the ESPN umbrella.

It is even sad for some G5 conf champs. If I was UTSA or say Coastal wins the SBC, I'd be fighting to play each other, not some other 8-4 team. Let two G5 champs duke it out. MAC vs MWC. etc.
Agreed.

Some of the bowl destinations aren’t really desirable destinations. In December.

But bowls aren’t going anywhere because they make ESPN money. They‘re fill a void in their programming.

But, tbh, I’d love to see a CUSA Bowl in Nashville at GEODIS Park.
 

AustinLewis

Hall of Famer
Staff
Sep 16, 2006
6,517
1,326
113
If you think it is toxic now (I call it righteous indignation) just wait five years from when Stock is still hanging on with extensions through the middle of the next decade….

People have passed judgement on the football program under Stockstill. You can tell by all the empty seats. It's not just a handful of disgruntled fans on the internet, facebook, twitter, and god knows where else fans feel the urge to speak freely.
Something like 90% of the people I interact with (online & in person) are done with MT FB until there is a change at HC. Right or wrong. That’s where the fans I interact with are at.

It’s sad. And quite frankly, it makes things even more difficult in some ways. Can‘t pay the bills with 4000 people in the stands, so MT has to pay more $$$ games against Bama. But they can’t afford to buyout Stock. And buying out Stock wouldn’t create $6million in new revenue (Needed for buyout).
 

MidTennMtneer

All Conference
Gold Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,677
1,640
113
Something like 90% of the people I interact with (online & in person) are done with MT FB until there is a change at HC. Right or wrong. That’s where the fans I interact with are at.

It’s sad. And quite frankly, it makes things even more difficult in some ways. Can‘t pay the bills with 4000 people in the stands, so MT has to pay more $$$ games against Bama. But they can’t afford to buyout Stock. And buying out Stock wouldn’t create $6million in new revenue (Needed for buyout).
But would it? I'm an accounting numbers guy but far from an analytics guru. But there has to come a point when not doing anything costs more than doing something.

If Stock were to be bought out, I'm sure there would be an influx of attention, excitement for a new coach, and if the school played it right (big if) an influx of donations. If the right hire was made (again, big if) of someone that helped build excitement there would be more in the stands, meaning more money as well.

It might not officially be at that point yet as I'm sure they won't do anything until the facility upgrades are complete. They will give him "all the resources he needs". But when things don't change that much then, especially if the assistants he has in place now don't change, that time will come. A choice will have to be made.
 

AustinLewis

Hall of Famer
Staff
Sep 16, 2006
6,517
1,326
113
But would it? I'm an accounting numbers guy but far from an analytics guru. But there has to come a point when not doing anything costs more than doing something.

If Stock were to be bought out, I'm sure there would be an influx of attention, excitement for a new coach, and if the school played it right (big if) an influx of donations. If the right hire was made (again, big if) of someone that helped build excitement there would be more in the stands, meaning more money as well.

It might not officially be at that point yet as I'm sure they won't do anything until the facility upgrades are complete. They will give him "all the resources he needs". But when things don't change that much then, especially if the assistants he has in place now don't change, that time will come. A choice will have to be made.
Yes and no.

From an immediate $$$ standpoint, I don't think MT generates an additional $1 million (to buyout Stock) in ticket sales & donations if Stock was fired.

In other words, if MT football generates ~$9million in revenue now (per Sportico) and it will cost around $1 million to buy him out, I'm not sure MT FB suddenly brings in $10 million in revenue just because Stock was fired.

At some point, however, one would think the cost of NOT doing something would outweigh the cost of doing something. But what do I know?

All that said, even when the facilities are complete & he has "all the resources he needs," Stock will still find a way to get to the magical number (7 wins) and the contract will renew...again. The auto-renew isn't a bad idea (in theory), but it was poorly executed IMO.

1) The bar for auto-renew needed to be 8 wins
2) They should have found a way to reduce the buyout (Ex : McD's contract, IIRC, the buyout is 50% of remaining salary after a specific date)

Setting the bar at 6 wins (or more than 50% of games) is too low for an auto-renew.
 

MTFAN61

Blue Raider Fan
Silver Member
Aug 11, 2022
416
504
93
Yes and no.

From an immediate $$$ standpoint, I don't think MT generates an additional $1 million (to buyout Stock) in ticket sales & donations if Stock was fired.

In other words, if MT football generates ~$9million in revenue now (per Sportico) and it will cost around $1 million to buy him out, I'm not sure MT FB suddenly brings in $10 million in revenue just because Stock was fired.

At some point, however, one would think the cost of NOT doing something would outweigh the cost of doing something. But what do I know?

All that said, even when the facilities are complete & he has "all the resources he needs," Stock will still find a way to get to the magical number (7 wins) and the contract will renew...again. The auto-renew isn't a bad idea (in theory), but it was poorly executed IMO.

1) The bar for auto-renew needed to be 8 wins
2) They should have found a way to reduce the buyout (Ex : McD's contract, IIRC, the buyout is 50% of remaining salary after a specific date)

Setting the bar at 6 wins (or more than 50% of games) is too low for an auto-renew.
I know we're getting back towards old subject matter, but I really would like to know how many fbs coaches have a 6-6 annual record goal as their auto renew contract outside Stock? Or for that matter to be balanced is McDevitt's annual goal 15-15? You have to say, if interested in athletics this would be a wonderful place to get a job at
 

MT Glenn

True Blue
Sep 19, 2005
950
1,396
93
I'm not a numbers guy but I agree with both sides. A buyout is expensive and doing nothing is also expensive. What if we didn't fire him, but instead reassigned him to Director of Custodial Affairs. We wouldn't have the buyout AND we would have a new (hopefully exciting) new coach. I have no idea what the numbers for this would look like.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MidTennMtneer

MidTennMtneer

All Conference
Gold Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,677
1,640
113
I know we're getting back towards old subject matter, but I really would like to know how many fbs coaches have a 6-6 annual record goal as their auto renew contract outside Stock? Or for that matter to be balanced is McDevitt's annual goal 15-15? You have to say, if interested in athletics this would be a wonderful place to get a job at
Stoops is the only one I've ever heard of but his is 7 wins. And that is for a coach who is 66-58 overall. He gets one yr for 7, a $250k bonus for 9, and a two yr for 10.

I wouldn't have a problem with extra time for 10. But agreed. 6 is way too low.

 

RaiderDoug

Hall of Famer
Jul 26, 2005
5,979
1,986
113
Stoops is the only one I've ever heard of but his is 7 wins. And that is for a coach who is 66-58 overall. He gets one yr for 7, a $250k bonus for 9, and a two yr for 10.

I wouldn't have a problem with extra time for 10. But agreed. 6 is way too low.


At least with Stoops, you could make the argument that Kentucky doesn't have the ability to compete with titans like Georgia, Florida, etc, so 7 wins is at least reasonable.

There's no reason MT shouldn't be one of the top performing programs in CUSA year in and year out.
 

RaiderDoug

Hall of Famer
Jul 26, 2005
5,979
1,986
113
Absolutely... it should be obvious that stooge mcphee doesn't give a rats ass about having a top performing football program as long as the tropical bowl games are available.

I honestly get the feeling that they'd be just as enthused about going 7-5 and going to the Hawaii or the Bahamas bowl as winning a championship, getting ranked, and making a NY6 Cotton Bowl.
 

MarJac23

Blue Raider
Feb 1, 2006
138
267
63
Center Hill Lake TN
Poster 1 - "I would love to have 1 Conference Championship in over 20 years of Division 1 Football"
Poster 2 - "You are toxic and I am leaving this message board" but never does
Show me one message board that is not toxic this time of year, sans Georgia and maybe Michigan.
check out the ohio St board. Ryan Day is being compared to John Cooper. Those Kats aint happy right now but I would love to have their problems. Put a Haz Mat suit on and jump in, especially if you have a G5 podcast.
 

SpaceRaider

Blue Raider Legend
Gold Member
Jul 22, 2001
74,515
6,157
113
God's Country
This forum is one that enables or almost compels a person to overcome illusion and perceive harsher realities. There are all kinds of posters across the spectrum. But I don't think because you don't believe the announced attendance of a football game you are negative. I believe if the administration is not up front and honest about a contract renegotiation (or extension) of an extremely unpopular coaching regime, when fans see dishonesty for what it is, that is not being negative. Like most here, I like to be told the truth. If I catch you in a lie, well don't be surprised when I don't believe you or find that you tried to keep the truth hidden.
 

DisgruntledAlum

Blue Raider Fan
Nov 8, 2021
278
247
43
Something like 90% of the people I interact with (online & in person) are done with MT FB until there is a change at HC. Right or wrong. That’s where the fans I interact with are at.

It’s sad. And quite frankly, it makes things even more difficult in some ways. Can‘t pay the bills with 4000 people in the stands, so MT has to pay more $$$ games against Bama. But they can’t afford to buyout Stock. And buying out Stock wouldn’t create $6million in new revenue (Needed for buyout).
But stop with the extensions.
 

RaiderDoug

Hall of Famer
Jul 26, 2005
5,979
1,986
113
I'm not sure they can stop the extensions....someone please correct me if I'm wrong though.

Isn't the current contract written in a way that guarantees extensions for 7+ wins (among other qualifications), in perpetuity?

I think you're right. I remember Sparks said that the contract was signed with the idea that Stock would want to win enough to move on to P5 or bigger jobs, and the contract would land us a buyout when he moved on.

Instead, he just quiet quit, brought his buddies into the country club, and is collecting his check for bare minimum effort.

That why, ultimately, I hate Stock more than the two doofuses Massaro and McPhee. M&M may be incompetent. But what Stock is doing is nefarious.
 
Nov 7, 2021
33
46
18
I think you're right. I remember Sparks said that the contract was signed with the idea that Stock would want to win enough to move on to P5 or bigger jobs, and the contract would land us a buyout when he moved on.

Instead, he just quiet quit, brought his buddies into the country club, and is collecting his check for bare minimum effort.

That why, ultimately, I hate Stock more than the two doofuses Massaro and McPhee. M&M may be incompetent.

What Stock is doing is nefarious.
The biggest misstep in this contract to me is - why would we write it that he gets the entire remainder of his contract as the buyout (payable by year, of course) if he's fired "without cause"? That's outright lunacy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DisgruntledAlum