FB RECRUITING FWIW
- Thread starter SpaceRaider
- Start date
We've signed exactly half (3) the number of quality prospects of the average Sunbelt school (6). And less than half of our peers (6.9 - 7).
WKU has 19 3/4 stars. We have 3.
Everything about this staff and program is to give the absolute minimal effort required to "compete".
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While there is a fair argument that MT should be targeting (and signing) more premier prospects, MT's facilities are behind. Way behind. I worked in FBS ops and recruiting for 18 months for another program and MT's football facilities weren't even in the same playing field as the competition.
Consider these comparisons :
I've covered MT recruiting for 5 out of the last 7 years and here's what the recruits what the recruits have consistently told me about what they look for in a program :
1) Coaches that "show the love"
2) Facilities
3) Winning bowls/championships
Consider these comparisons :
- TSU has an indoor facility (even Oakland HS has one)
- WKU's stadium includes a "football ops facility" that houses coaches offices, strength and conditioning, athletic training, equipment room, and locker room in one facility
- UAB is building a football ops/"indoor" facility
- Marshall has an indoor facility
I've covered MT recruiting for 5 out of the last 7 years and here's what the recruits what the recruits have consistently told me about what they look for in a program :
1) Coaches that "show the love"
2) Facilities
3) Winning bowls/championships
Really sad. I'll keep saying it, but MT is getting passed by. Just wait to see.
Is anyone even in Massaro's ear about the state of things and that mediocrity isn't acceptable? I think he is one of the biggest problems. Very nice guy and he's done a lot, but he really isn't capable of getting us to the next level.
Is anyone even in Massaro's ear about the state of things and that mediocrity isn't acceptable? I think he is one of the biggest problems. Very nice guy and he's done a lot, but he really isn't capable of getting us to the next level.
Do we need to donate more money, or are we just not spending this money wisely?
You mention WKU's and Marshall's facility investments, yet we spend more on athletics than they do.
http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/
UAB spends a grand total of $41k more than us. And they got a $$$$'s bump from their very unique circumstance of shutting down and then having the community rally around them. They were traditionally a budget school.
How are our facilities and infrastructure so woefully inadequate yet schools that make the same or less money have all these wonderful, shiny new toys?
They're not richer than we are. So where does our money go?
I received an email from the university last week talking about the federal tax changes coming:
"With the new tax law to be signed into effect soon, your tax planning and filing may change. Given the new tax bracket ranges and expanded standard deduction amounts, itemizing deductions may not be in your plans for 2018. We encourage you to consult your tax adviser, and if you want to make a tax-deductible gift in 2017 (rather than waiting to 2018), you can make a credit card gift at www.mtsu.edu/give (and give us your instructions for the use of your gift in the comments box), or get a check into the mail by December 31, 2017 payable to the MTSU Foundation at Box 109, 1301 E. Main Street, Murfreesboro, TN 37132....."
I suspect that most giving to a G5 program is probably not primarily based on benefit of deduction but with the changes coming, if there are plans to give, perhaps the plans will be moved up for this tax year. Hopefully if Massaro and company have anyone close to giving a major gift, this would be the time for a full court press, so to speak.
"With the new tax law to be signed into effect soon, your tax planning and filing may change. Given the new tax bracket ranges and expanded standard deduction amounts, itemizing deductions may not be in your plans for 2018. We encourage you to consult your tax adviser, and if you want to make a tax-deductible gift in 2017 (rather than waiting to 2018), you can make a credit card gift at www.mtsu.edu/give (and give us your instructions for the use of your gift in the comments box), or get a check into the mail by December 31, 2017 payable to the MTSU Foundation at Box 109, 1301 E. Main Street, Murfreesboro, TN 37132....."
I suspect that most giving to a G5 program is probably not primarily based on benefit of deduction but with the changes coming, if there are plans to give, perhaps the plans will be moved up for this tax year. Hopefully if Massaro and company have anyone close to giving a major gift, this would be the time for a full court press, so to speak.
And bizarrely, there seems to be an inverse relationship between recruiting and $$$'s.
The top 5 CUSA classes right now are FIU, WKU, La Tech, UTSA, and USM.
Of those 5, only UTSA spends more on athletics than we do (by a measly few percentage points).
We may not be one of the most advantaged programs in the NCAA by measure of $$$'s, but any way you slice it, compared to our peers we're doing less with more.
And something else - you guys know I follow UT, as an alum of both schools. Well, they're a full on dumpster fire. Virtually the entirety of Butch Jones class has abandoned ship.
While these guys might not have been high major SEC caliber, a lot of them are now considering lower level P5 schools and G5 schools - as a G5 watcher, I tend to keep up with them. You'd be shocked at how many of them are considering WKU, Marshall, USM, FAU, etc. Maybe they end up there, maybe they don't (probably not, they'll end up at Rutgers and Indiana's of the world).
But not a single one has mentioned MTSU in any interviews. Why not?
Who are we signing?
Linebackers from California JUCOs whose only other offers are NAIA schools.
While these guys might not have been high major SEC caliber, a lot of them are now considering lower level P5 schools and G5 schools - as a G5 watcher, I tend to keep up with them. You'd be shocked at how many of them are considering WKU, Marshall, USM, FAU, etc. Maybe they end up there, maybe they don't (probably not, they'll end up at Rutgers and Indiana's of the world).
But not a single one has mentioned MTSU in any interviews. Why not?
Who are we signing?
Linebackers from California JUCOs whose only other offers are NAIA schools.
I'm going to defend Massaro while at the same time wishing he had gotten the Ga. St. job. (perhaps new blood could help somewhat)
I have gotta believe that Massaro's biggest surprise was the inability of a school our size to get financial support from area businesses, media, and yes: Alumni and locals. Over time his frustration probably caused him to see his job as being just one of "lifestyle maintenance". No ability to go elsewhere through success and no motivation by the excitement, only disappointment.
The arrival of pro-sports to the area and the ESPNing of sports fans, along with the minor impact of two local NAIA schools "moving up" severely hampered any attempts to become a major player in the mid-state. The three biggest companies in the county (State Farm possibly excepted) give very little to MT while spending millions in sports advertising elsewhere. And look at the mid-state south of Rutherford Co. Name one business other than a few car dealerships outside of Rutherford Co. that gives (or would be able to) to MT. Williamson and Wilson are too tied to Nashville. Nowhere to go in Marshall, Maury, Hickman, Lawrence, Franklin, Lincoln, Giles, Grundy, Cannon, Coffee, etc. for a donor to give even part of the support needed. You get the message.
The loss of expected income from the conference is huge also and subject of a different discussion.
No one is more disappointed that we are where we are 20 years into D-1 FB than me. I would have thought that by now we would have been supported throughout the mid-state similarly as the school up east is across the state. Not even close, perhaps even further away than decades ago. From the outside looking in I can understand the frustration for the incredibly slow facility upgrades and project announcements from young fans and those who aren't realists..
Fans, it is what it is. No dollars to promote, advertise, build, or improve. We are stuck in athletic purgatory. Not saying we would have been better staying in the OVC, but . . .
I have gotta believe that Massaro's biggest surprise was the inability of a school our size to get financial support from area businesses, media, and yes: Alumni and locals. Over time his frustration probably caused him to see his job as being just one of "lifestyle maintenance". No ability to go elsewhere through success and no motivation by the excitement, only disappointment.
The arrival of pro-sports to the area and the ESPNing of sports fans, along with the minor impact of two local NAIA schools "moving up" severely hampered any attempts to become a major player in the mid-state. The three biggest companies in the county (State Farm possibly excepted) give very little to MT while spending millions in sports advertising elsewhere. And look at the mid-state south of Rutherford Co. Name one business other than a few car dealerships outside of Rutherford Co. that gives (or would be able to) to MT. Williamson and Wilson are too tied to Nashville. Nowhere to go in Marshall, Maury, Hickman, Lawrence, Franklin, Lincoln, Giles, Grundy, Cannon, Coffee, etc. for a donor to give even part of the support needed. You get the message.
The loss of expected income from the conference is huge also and subject of a different discussion.
No one is more disappointed that we are where we are 20 years into D-1 FB than me. I would have thought that by now we would have been supported throughout the mid-state similarly as the school up east is across the state. Not even close, perhaps even further away than decades ago. From the outside looking in I can understand the frustration for the incredibly slow facility upgrades and project announcements from young fans and those who aren't realists..
Fans, it is what it is. No dollars to promote, advertise, build, or improve. We are stuck in athletic purgatory. Not saying we would have been better staying in the OVC, but . . .
So many of your are so far gone you should just give it all a rest. I get the frustration, but if we suck this bad either do something different (like give more money) or go be a fan of a P5.
Coming on the boards and proclaiming how pathetic we are over and over and over is so old.
Coming on the boards and proclaiming how pathetic we are over and over and over is so old.
Great points. I dug a little deeper into the USA Today database. MT spends roughly 3 million more on scholarships and 2 million more on "other" while WKU spends 2 million more on facilities.
My guess is that WKU's decision to suspend swimming / diving in (in the wake of the hazing incident) and men's tennis program gives them the ability to spend more on facilities.
One could argue the desire to be good at everything (win the all conference trophy) and desire to keep non-revenue sports prevents MT from being great in a major program (i.e. jack of all trades and a master of none).
Despite Murfreesboro's growth (both in population and industry), the lack of local support is, and should be, disturbing. As one poster said earlier, Massaro was probably shocked at the lack of local support for the athletic program. As a comparison, WKU (located in a town half the size of Murfreesboro) has more revenue coming from ticket sales and contributions than MT does
You want the Alumni to pump in more money. Get a President that is amiable to the point where one wants to give. Many out there that will not give until he is gone. Just sayin. I hope the new board finally realizes this.
The more I see things with MT in 2017-18 the more I see status quo. Which ultimately drifts towards mediocrity. While our campus has vastly expanded with multiple buildings, baseball and football stadiums, and FBS football in the last 20 years, the problem was (and is) that we were woefully behind in the 1970's, 80's and early 90's compared to top tier institutions across the country. Now we reached the starting line, other institutions of learning increased their offerings to the point we haven't really caught up in perception as a major research university or a football and basketball powerhouse. Winning a couple of NCAA first round games in men's basketball was great and needed. But, our culture tends to reflect "I'm so happy to be here" that we fail to take the next difficult step to excel consistently at a national level. Not sure we are equipped to do so with current leadership; it's proving out to be we are not. Dr. James E. Walker had the true vision and Dr. Sidney A. McPhee carried out many of those plans. The real question is where is MT going to be in 2036 (125th anniversary) or 2061 (150th anniversary)? I don't see substantial efforts getting a professional school such as law, medical, dental, veterinary, etc. At least one of these programs is required to generate the affluence in the alumni base. We're getting more affinity degree programs that may or may not be in demand 15-25 years from now. Our alumni base is primarily comprised of teachers, journalists, recording industry professionals, lab assistants, sales and marketing, and other liberal arts disciplines. That's fine and we are carrying out our institutional mission satisfactorily. But, we will never be known as a Georgia Tech, UCLA, Stanford, Michigan State, or Syracuse with the recipe that we currently using. Someone quoted the "Jack of All Trades..." mentality, I agree with that thought in 2017.
In budget, yes, we do know how to stretch a dollar. However its like Christmas shopping at Dollar General versus Wal-Mart, Dillard's, or Nordstrom. Each store listed has good product. But obviously clothing or housewares products are vastly different in price and quality at each level of the retail chain. We have to remember cheap often means poor quality, Conversely, expensive might under perform expectations if the product is not manufactured well but has a name brand. We've hit mass market pretty well. But too many times we've advertised a product in athletics that is out of stock or been like an imitation branded watch or handbag. When purchaser got it home, it under performed and the quality wasn't there. Now, a good contingent of dyed in the wool fans, alumni, and "Jack and Dianne" sidewalk alumni are skeptical of our product offerings. Everything from media properties to game day experiences speaks more like the Sun Belt or FCS rather than P5 or BC$ schools. Until we change the measuring stick that marks higher standards, we will either see a one hit wonder once every generation followed by many years of 8-4, 7-5, 6-6, with occasionally a clunker 3-9 season. Am afraid we are nearing our peak in basketball, too....so close, but yet so far from an sweet 16/elite 8 type of season with the results of the recent tournament.
In short, we have to have someone who is fully empowered and accountable that sets goals, measures them, and is prepared to act swiftly and change course if things don't work. That has not been present for several years in leadership and athletics. Lot of work to be done in 2018 and beyond!
In budget, yes, we do know how to stretch a dollar. However its like Christmas shopping at Dollar General versus Wal-Mart, Dillard's, or Nordstrom. Each store listed has good product. But obviously clothing or housewares products are vastly different in price and quality at each level of the retail chain. We have to remember cheap often means poor quality, Conversely, expensive might under perform expectations if the product is not manufactured well but has a name brand. We've hit mass market pretty well. But too many times we've advertised a product in athletics that is out of stock or been like an imitation branded watch or handbag. When purchaser got it home, it under performed and the quality wasn't there. Now, a good contingent of dyed in the wool fans, alumni, and "Jack and Dianne" sidewalk alumni are skeptical of our product offerings. Everything from media properties to game day experiences speaks more like the Sun Belt or FCS rather than P5 or BC$ schools. Until we change the measuring stick that marks higher standards, we will either see a one hit wonder once every generation followed by many years of 8-4, 7-5, 6-6, with occasionally a clunker 3-9 season. Am afraid we are nearing our peak in basketball, too....so close, but yet so far from an sweet 16/elite 8 type of season with the results of the recent tournament.
In short, we have to have someone who is fully empowered and accountable that sets goals, measures them, and is prepared to act swiftly and change course if things don't work. That has not been present for several years in leadership and athletics. Lot of work to be done in 2018 and beyond!
Good points on that. We do seem to be vastly more successful at non-revenue sports than football. Perhaps our focus and investment on those sports are giving us a competitive advantage over more football-centric schools.
I admit, I'm not really a guy that pays much attention to other sports. I will pay a little bit of attention to the tourney in March. I like baseball, but since we went cheap with McGuire, we haven't been near as successful as we have under Petersen.
I believe that football is the engine that makes everything else go - i.e. the rising tide of football will float all the other sports boats. Football is the sport that brings people to campus, has them wearing MT gear, and has them donating to the BRAA. Men's BBall does this to a degree, but we're in football country.
The all-sports trophy is nice, but are the investments we're making in other sports even paying any real tangible dividend? It's certainly not growing the fan base.
How many 3, 4 and 5 stars did Sanford have at ND? Yet, he still sucked when he was there. WKU needs all 19 of those 3 stars and yet, they won't win 6 games next year. Book it. If you can't win more than 6 games with a healthy Mike White all season and 3 super talented WR's, you suck as a coaching staff. Bottom line. WKU is done until they fire that guy. Who are they replacing White and many others from those 2 championship teams with? Come on.
All of those rankings are so subjective. UT had top 10 classes under Jones but where was the production on the field? No where.
All of those rankings are so subjective. UT had top 10 classes under Jones but where was the production on the field? No where.
Most people need to be excited about the direction the school is heading to give money to the university. The combination of McPhee, Massaro, and Stockstill is the opposite of exciting. Don't expect much donations while they are still here.
Also, to be motivated to give, people need a clearly stated goal to reach for. You can't just say "Give to the athletic department. We need the money".
Dave Ramsey counsels people when trying to get out of debt to think of not just getting out of debt for the sake of being out debt, but to think about what you can do with that extra money once your out of debt ie. take a nice trip, buy a car, move up in house etc. The athletic department can do the same. If the goal is to build a new football operations center in Floyd Stadium. Get some architectural renderings and build a website. Allow people to give as low as $5 online instantly. Share it on facebook and twitter. Have a meter that shows the progress of the campaign. That is all easy and cheap to do, but for some reason it's not done.
Also, to be motivated to give, people need a clearly stated goal to reach for. You can't just say "Give to the athletic department. We need the money".
Dave Ramsey counsels people when trying to get out of debt to think of not just getting out of debt for the sake of being out debt, but to think about what you can do with that extra money once your out of debt ie. take a nice trip, buy a car, move up in house etc. The athletic department can do the same. If the goal is to build a new football operations center in Floyd Stadium. Get some architectural renderings and build a website. Allow people to give as low as $5 online instantly. Share it on facebook and twitter. Have a meter that shows the progress of the campaign. That is all easy and cheap to do, but for some reason it's not done.
What is wrong with comparing ourselves to our peers and analyzing our shortcomings as a program? Everyone here cares about the program otherwise they wouldn't waste their time on this board. You can't just stick your hand in the sand and ignore our problems.
Trust me, no one is ignoring the problems that we have but we have heard all of this on repeat for years now. There are no problems that we are not aware of and it's gets tiresome and old. Even the good things that happen get lost in the fold and are criticized too. It gets real old.
That's the point he was trying to make. Unless all of us are millionaires, nothing is changing. They just sent out a letter that stated the all of the BRAA donations (including the blue blood higher rollers) equaled to a whopping 1.5 mill. Most P5 schools use 1.5 mill to wipe their rears with. 3.5 if they have eaten Chili. Until that number gets above 5, nothing is changing. So you got to ask yourself are you in or out at that point because constantly being on the outside of the tent pissing in helps no one in the end.
Not saying we can't moan and groan a bit. I've done that this season definitely. Everyday all day is when it gets tiresome. I'll take this over 95% of the other teams in CUSA everyday.
I see your point and I think there is some validity to those arguments, but I would say that is where a GOOD AD would come in. He is the AD for a reason, to bring the program along and set the direction. If you aren't getting any traction on donations, then evaluate what is working and what is not. Change things and push ahead to build a better program. You can't just sit there and accept that there is no money coming in and we are stuck. Don't just accept it for that fact, unless you are content being 6-6 every year and seeing more of the same. But guess what - the rest of the conference is moving forward, so unless we do we will fall behind. He's had long enough to build this thing up and I just don't see him moving the needle enough. He's got a lot to work with here (alumni, proximity to a large market, etc.)
Do we see any bigger programs trying to take Massaro from us? Does he even get a sniff? That's usually a good sign he is doing something right if other programs are trying to lure him away. To be approached by GA State? That doesn't really make me think he is in high regards in the AD world.
I'm thinking the AD position is one that needs new blood.
We need to see some passion from the administration. The needle needs to move forward some how some way. There are still plenty of organizations in the Middle Tennessee area that can / would donate. Again, there are over 100k alumni in the area. I’d love to see the business plan and see the metrics around it for donations / sponsorships.
This
He's just building retirement while enjoying free meals and travel.
This x1000.
He's just building retirement while enjoying free meals and travel.
I think you misunderstand me...I am asking for action from the fans. If you don't like the direction then influence it. What is frustrating to me is folks come on the board and whine and say they are done until something changes. If you don't like our President then influence a change. If you don't like our coach or his contract then find a way to do what you think is best. We just won a bowl game and folks are not only not happy but talking negatively about it. Just take some action is all I am asking.
Personally, I am very happy with the bowl win but unsatisfied with the 7-6 season.
I need something more to rally around. The contract and the losses to rivals that make a big difference for me and dare I say, Lack of a conference title.
The recruiting rankings are a bummer. There is always next year...and the year after that....and the year after that.
I need something more to rally around. The contract and the losses to rivals that make a big difference for me and dare I say, Lack of a conference title.
The recruiting rankings are a bummer. There is always next year...and the year after that....and the year after that.
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How? I'm serious.
I don't have deep enough pockets for anyone to listen to me.
I guess I could set myself on fire in front of Floyd, but that might smell bad and drive away the few fans we actually do have.
The only way to actually get any attention is essentially to continue growing this swell of discontent, and on the only medium that's readily available - the internet, of which this site is a part.
I get it, you're tired of the negativity. Me too. I want something positive. And when we do something positive, follow it up with something positive. Do that a couple of times, and whaddaya-know, we have some positive momentum. A little bit of positive momentum might set this whole thing in motion in a positive direction.
That bowl game was nice, (albeit against a team from the Sunbelt that couldn't complete a forward pass, and we almost blew at the end), but it doesn't wipe away the stink of one mediocre season after another, and then, we log on here, and see our recruiting class at the bottom of the conference.
It's the classic 1 step forward, 1 step backwards, stuck in the same middle of the pack that we've been for the last decade.
10 posters on a G5 team message board isn't exactly a swell of discontent. Just the same old broken record.
Also, stAte had the no.6 passing offense and had Troy beat. They're a good team. Much better than Hawaii last year and we're a better team than last year too. We were just beat to hell until the bowl game.
Also, stAte had the no.6 passing offense and had Troy beat. They're a good team. Much better than Hawaii last year and we're a better team than last year too. We were just beat to hell until the bowl game.
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We contribute to the BRAA every year, attend at least 1 home game, and 1 away game. We live in Dallas and . If we could attend more games we would. Are we happy going 6-6? No! Let's start a gofundme page and start awareness of how the school needs a new indoor practice facility..Get excited and make a difference by wearing your gear every day, contribute to the BRAA, make a phone call to an alumni that is not involved hangs his diploma in his office and ask him why they support another collegiate institution.
Perhaps The President & AD should reach out to Nissan, Pinnacle, Regions, UBS, Cracker Barrell, HCA, just to name a few.. Set an agenda, implement, & evaluate success and failures.. Hold personnel accountable...
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