Does California have to ruin everything sacred in this country?

Discussion in 'Around the Water Cooler' started by sWiley, Jun 25, 2019.

  1. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    SpaceRaider likes this.
  2. MTFNBY5

    MTFNBY5 Hall of Famer
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    Wiley: I don't think the blame for this rests in California. There are plenty of libertarians and extreme free-market capitalist nationwide who believe athletes have a right to "all that money" generated by their toil from being college athletics. Additionally many fans of schools who have the athletes who could make serious $$$s give not one whit about athletes in minor sports or at colleges they see as below theirs.

    My solution, should this movement gain force, would be for athletes who chose to use their names for profit while playing sports pay for the entire cost of their scholarship. Gotta think that only a few would be able to pay the cost of a full ride from sales of merchandise. Most would think twice before making that choice.
     
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  3. MidTennMtneer

    MidTennMtneer Blue Raider Fan
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    I’ve said that exact same thing.

    Make money and pay for your own school or don’t and get a free ride.
     
  4. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    That would be a fair middle ground.

    But these clowns are not pursuing a middle ground. They're trying to impose and screw with the entire country via stupid little local laws.

    I really wish California would disappear. Or at least all the libtards running it.
     
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  5. SCRaider01

    SCRaider01 Blue Raider Fan
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    Ugh. Really? The university's athletic performance is making so very difficult to stay engaged. I come here and see this nonsense. Libtards? Can you not keep that crap on a redneck intolerance board, or at least the water cooler, and leave this to MTSU athletics.
     
  6. Blueraider_Mike

    Blueraider_Mike Hall of Famer
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    SC - then you should know better to venture into "Around the Water Cooler". This area is for personal opinion...its good to keep this area for it keeps politics off the sports side of things.
     
  7. MTFNBY5

    MTFNBY5 Hall of Famer
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    I appreciate the moderators moving this thread and I'm only posting again since I previously posted. I rarely come to the "Around the Water Cooler" and seldom post.

    To Wiley: Your posts in this thread are offensive to me but I tried in my earlier post to respond with clearly demonstrable facts. Surely you realize that there are both conservatives and liberals in every state, county, city, and hamlet in this country. Additionally the tired refrain from conservatives hoping the San Andreas Fault would fall into the Pacific is matched by some liberals (who do not live in the South) wishing the South would secede and leave without any effort to make them stay in the union. There is crap on all sides (I'll give no opinion here on which side has the most of it) and I try to keep my feelings about politics and religion away from this forum which gives me so much pleasure by allowing us to communicate with fellow Blue Raider fans.

    For once I am going to get obviously political and this will hopefully be my last comment in this thread. I am a progressive, liberal social democrat (not a democratic socialist) and I am proud of it. I also know my intelligence level and I am not retarded. Your use of the term "libtard" (implying that liberals are retarded) is not only offensive but should be beneath you. A response to something you don't like by name calling is very telling.
     
  8. SCRaider01

    SCRaider01 Blue Raider Fan
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    This was originally not in the Water Cooler.
     
  9. Blueraider_Mike

    Blueraider_Mike Hall of Famer
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    thanks, I didn't know...you were right to say what you did.
     
  10. BlueRaiderFan

    BlueRaiderFan Hall of Famer
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    So, the little guy shouldn't get paid for their work? Sounds familiar...
     
  11. MTLynn

    MTLynn Hall of Famer
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    payment is a college education - same as soccer, tennis, golf, etc.
     
  12. BlueRaiderFan

    BlueRaiderFan Hall of Famer
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    Yeah, they make millions and give them thousands...
     
  13. Blueraider_Mike

    Blueraider_Mike Hall of Famer
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    There are 460K college athletes; how many of them make millions for their universities? On one hand you want the top 1% of athletes to have a special deal and get paid and on the other hand vilify the top 1% in our nation and think they should cover all bills - I am confused.
     
  14. BlueRaiderFan

    BlueRaiderFan Hall of Famer
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    Mike, I don't vilify the top 1%. I do say that they need to get rid of tax loopholes and help pay for healthcare coverage for all, in whatever form we could work out. After all, we could afford $15 Trillion dollars for war, surely we can get expanded Medicare, or a universal system going. You are intent on seeing things that I say in one way. I'm not against the wealthy. We will always have different classes. I'm against people making tens and hundreds of millions, or MORE, that pay a lower tax rate than many outside of the top 1%, after deductions, and yes, many of them do.
     
  15. BlueRaiderFan

    BlueRaiderFan Hall of Famer
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    And as long as the elite athletes pay reasonable tax rates on their earnings, I don't have a problem with it either.
     
    15 BlueRaiderFan, Jun 29, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
  16. Blueraider_Mike

    Blueraider_Mike Hall of Famer
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    But rich do pay the bulk of the taxes, they don't pay a lower rate. There are some families that live off their investments and pay taxes on that income that is lower but that income is based on money already taxed (investments) so in essence its double taxed and its money being put at risk - you are conveniently leaving that out.

    Buffet is the classic example who started this truth with a twist...he wasn't being intellectually honest. And by the way his secretary makes about 350K per year.
     
  17. MTFNBY5

    MTFNBY5 Hall of Famer
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    Even with my aversion to posting in "Around the Water Cooler" I would like to give my thoughts (hopefully based on facts) on income taxes. I believe I have some limited expertise in this area since I not only have an MBA from M'Boro's most prestigious university but also I have been investing for almost as long as I have been a Blue Raider fan (thanks to wise council from my Dad). I don't consider my self wealthy but admit I am what I describe as "reasonably well off". My investments include real estate, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, index funds, and investment trusts. For several years my income from investments has exceeded my earned income (in part because of the low-paying career I was in before retiring). I am a conservative buy-and-hold investor: My investment counselor (BTW a former MT econ. prof.) says I get married to my investments.

    My first point would be that there is so much inaccurate information floating around regarding taxes. I remember clearly when those friends who did not go to college were first filing tax returns there was much talk of keeping out of the next tax bracket. Only when I started out filing my own taxes rather than letting my Dad do it did I put the numbers to the tax brackets and understand that "marginal" taxes meant that a tax-payer never lost money by having more income.

    In virtually all instances the "effective" tax rate is lower (often much lower - even sometimes zero on huge corporate profits) than the marginal or advertised tax rate for both individuals and corporations. (part if this difference is due to the loopholes in the tax code) A talking point in favor of the Trump tax cuts was that the United States had the highest corporate tax rates in the world. True, when looking at the advertised rate but in actuality the United States' effective tax rate for corporations was in the middle when compared to all industrialized nations.

    As for $$$s being taxed twice. Only the income (or if you sell - the increase in value) of an investment is subject to tax. The principle is never taxed again. Even inheritance taxes would not tax the moneys again, except for the super-wealthy, since most assets are inherited at a "stepped-up" value (a huge tax-advantaged way to increase your descendants prospects). Additionally, even if an investment is sold the increase in value is taxed at capital gains rates which are usually much less than income tax rates. Yes, some investments may lose $$$s but these losses can often be used to offset gains.

    Tax policy is an interesting topic and I admit I spend way too much time studying it. It must be said that human nature being what it is most people believe they are taxed too much and that other people pay too little (similarly it's common to believe one is paid too little for his labor and others are paid too much).
    So many questions arise when looking for fairness in the tax code: Should labor and unearned income be taxed at the same rate? Is unearned income from investments the same as from inherited investments? What should be promoted through the tax code (religious affiliation, charitable contributions, home ownership, etc.)? Should the tax code reward saving, living "below your means", and accepting personal responsibility for yours' and your descendants' future? How do you make it fair to those who have limited means to improve their financial situation? How should the tax brackets be broken down and what is a reasonable rate for each bracket? and so many more issues.

    The only way to effectively look at taxes is to remove yourself from your present financial position and your political persuasion. That's damn hard to do.

    (As an aside: I trust this post is not affected by my admitted liberal leanings and that it is not perceived as an effort to "talk down" to any reader. I am just trying to clear up what appear to be some misconceptions)
     
  18. Blueraider_Mike

    Blueraider_Mike Hall of Famer
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    Very elegant post and I agree with many of your points. You went in to more nuance and these are points that should be discussed openly. There is this assumption (not saying you believe this) that all rich people are living off trust funds, etc. 87% of the Millionaires are first generation rich - that means they are paying Federal income taxes and the marginal rates go up drastically on most of their income.

    I am not wealthy but make a top 10% income and if I have long life I will retire with considerable assets...the only right offs I have is some on my house due to mortgage interest (capped by the Trump tax changes) and any retirement funds through my 40Ik at work (which if lower income people don't participate you are limited to less than the max that the IRS publishes)...there are Zero hidden tax shelters. I can't right off the thousands of medical expense I have each year due to my chronic illness because I make too much. I can't get a break on college costs for my 2 college aged kids because I make too much - they don't qualify for all the extra bumps and credits. My IRA's contributions are not tax deductible. For me, I start shutting things down 7-8 months of the year because the effort is not worth the taxes I'd have to pay. I could go on and on.

    After retirement savings, I have to accumulate wealth through either Real Estate or investments in the stock market - these have risk and when you sell you pay tax on the gain - that is double taxation.
     
  19. BlueRaiderFan

    BlueRaiderFan Hall of Famer
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    Mike, I'm not talking about people with a million bucks in the bank and you know it, good God. If you aren't going to debate genuinely then don't address my posts. I'm taking about major corporations , and in some case moderately sized businesses, paying an effective rate lower than I pay and in some cases ZERO percent. You know what in the hell I'm saying. Stop side stepping.
     
    19 BlueRaiderFan, Jul 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
  20. BlueRaiderFan

    BlueRaiderFan Hall of Famer
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    What Mike and others can't understand is that some people are born into circumstance that makes it very difficult for them to get to the point to where they can meet more than the basic requirements.
     

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