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Discussion in 'Around the Water Cooler' started by RaiderDawg78, Feb 4, 2020.
Very good paper on the status of what we know now.
Robert Steele claims this was an attack on the Chinese economy
The radiation part is just silly. This virus is in the same family and behaves much like SARS and MERS, to the point the virus was named SARS-Cov2, and the disease is CovID-19 (like HIV causing AIDS). The virus causes a nasty respiratory disease, which like influenza, can kill.
His idea it was an attack on China is a new rumor to me. The most common is that China screwed up and accidentally released it from one of their own labs. More likely, it happened in a similar crossover from bats through other animals to humans (something like the last scene of contagion).
A Chinese woman speaks out
Please tell me you don’t find this guy credible, even a little.
He’s about as accurate as BRF is a fiscal conservative.
I consider what he says. We know that the powerful have ran false flags for centuries.
There will be another "pandemic" in a few years - it's almost like clockwork.
This is the most concerning I have seen in my years as a microbiologist and in public health.
Does this mean it will be worst case scenario, clusters in the US, or sporadic? I don’t know.
What we do know is people essentially have no protective immunity against this virus like we do versus flu. SARA-Cov1 and now SARS-Cov2 (the virus that causes COVID-19 is highly contagious & it’s currently killing ~2.3% of those infected. That’s essentially what the 1918 Spanish Flu did.
For example, this virus is acting just as infectious as H1N1 did in 2009. That virus infected 60 million and killed ~12,000 in the US. This virus appears just as infectious and if it maintains the same mortality rate, ~1.2 million would die in the USA. I think our response to this will be better, but it’s concerning.
I don’t think it will maintain that mortality rate But in all my time going into labs with some nasty bacteria or hemorrhagic fevers, the only thing that really concerned me has been a flu strain that would basically present as “new” to a naive human population. This virus is acting like that currently
Oh, I'm about convinced that Robert Steele guy is a disinfo guy from that famous community that is not supposed to turn it's focus or efforts inward, only outwards if you know what I mean. I think he openly admits to being a former employee. I can't say I know of the guy well, but I have definitely run across him a number of times around the internet. His assertions have almost always ended up leading down some bogus rabbit trail. You know, just enough of a kernel of truth to where you want to see what he has to say, but then it mostly ends up leading to nowhere or worse. Just my opinion on the guy from my few experiences of hearing him or reading him online a few times over the last couple of years.
This coronavirus seems like it is no joke. I'm certainly not freaking out about it, but I am taking it seriously.
I'm certainly no expert, but after listening to a few experts I'm about convinced this thing was cooked up in some lab. A Frankenstein sort of bug. I tend to think it is an engineered bug that accidentally escaped into the wild from a lab. Admittedly, I am open to and consider other possibilities regarding origin and mode of escape. I just would like a little more evidence for some of those theories before I start airing those theories out.
In 2011 the media was full of stories of how Fukushima was "an extinction-level event." And we've had the potential swine flu pandemic a few times...
My advice is to avoid Corona. Drink Budweiser!
Sadly, the media has sucked up the virus story into it's politically weaponized hysteria-inducing outrage driven perpetual propaganda "news" cycle. It is really a betrayel of the American people.
Agreed. The truth is this is a very contagious new virus that has a high mortality rate in at risk individuals and acts like a bad influenza strain for everyone else. We don’t know much about it yet.
The hopefully good news is that it is an enveloped virus. If it acts like influenza and SARS 2003, then it’s transmission will decrease in May/ June. We don’t know for sure.
I think it’s worth taking extra precautions to prevent asymptomatically or mild case transmit to those at high risk. But showing the spread/deaths and them playing the political sides is not helping. This is a public health issue, not political.
Being that I am quite distrustful of about anything the media says, this whole picture is pretty unclear. Even lesser known news sources I generally give credence are uncertain on key details.
All of that to ask:
At what point does the medicine become more damaging than the illness?
At this point, America is flirting with a depression, not just a recession, in my opinion. I'd feel a little better about the direction of things if some of the key details weren't so blurry.
Oh, I almost forgot, I got a bad feeling about all of this.
Americans Will Likely Receive 2 Checks
Also, President Trump invokes a 1950 law
Posted Mar 18, 2020 12:11 PM CDT
Wall Street Journal. The amount would be dependent on family size and income, but the Washington Post reports that many Americans could receive a total of $2,000. The aid would be part of the mammoth stimulus package still being worked out by the White House and Congress. The proposal also may include $300 billion to help small businesses avoid layoffs. Also Wednesday:
Invoking a law: President Trump said he would invoke the Defense Production Act to increase production of equipment such as ventilators, respirators, and protective gear for medical workers, reports the New York Times. The 1950 law gives the president authority to take such action in the name of national defense. "It can do a lot of good things if we need it and we will have it all completed, signing it in just a little while," said Trump, per ABC News.
Floating hospitals: Trump also said one Navy medical ship has been dispatched to New York City and another to the West Coast. These ships, likened to floating hospitals, won't treat COVID patients but will instead treat other types of patients to relieve the strain on hospitals, says the Navy, per NBC News. One of them is the USNS Comfort, which has 1,000 beds, including 80 designed for intensive care, per the Times.
No evictions: Trump also ordered the Department of Housing and Urban Development to suspend evictions and foreclosures through April, reports the Hill. "So we’re working very closely with [HUD Secretary] Dr. Ben Carson and everybody from HUD," said Trump.
Controversial term: In his news conference and in a tweet before it, Trump again referred to COVID-19 as the "Chinese virus." Trump is increasingly using the phrase, notes NPR, even though many, including the head of the CDC, discourage it.
As this day is coming to an end, it seems a little bit of clarity is starting to pop up here and there. Apparently, I'm not the only one with the same exact questions and concerns.
By all means the virus should be taken seriously and acted upon wisely. At the same time, shutting down most of the American economy is beyond dangerous. There is no precedence for completely standing back up an advanced technological economy of over 300 million people after a few weeks of it being shut down. If this nation & economy does not come back on line in the next couple of weeks, we all could end up getting a taste of life similar to the Great Depression.
This is a unique situation for sure.
There is the epidemiological aspect and the economic aspect. Policy has to balance those and danger to life.
The goal really needs to be slowing the spread such that we keep from overloading hospitals. The number of people under 65 that are in ICU and hospitals in NY is troubling. Most of these people will recover given proper care. But if we overload the hospitals so that people can’t get proper care, we will have people dying that should not.
In hindsight, I wish we had setup and expanding testing early. I wish China would have allowed us in & we could have learned this was transmissible by asymptomatic people earlier than we did. But it is what it is and hopefully our leaders make solid decisions that preserve as much of our economy as it can without sacrificing life.
RaiderDawg78, that last line of yours friend is exactly one of my main concerns. Being that I already am distrustful of government in general and especially The Big Bureaucracy, it is a small target or a fine needle that needs to be threaded. It is limiting physical interaction to limit the spread of the virus while at the same time NOT limiting commerce to such a degree that our economy is irreparably damaged or even destroyed.
Add to that mix fear and a mass media hyping that fear, and an environment for sound and wise decision making becomes toxic.
Then throw in these two further variables. The Chicoms are steadily pumping in disinformation through various media to further destabilize our country. The same media has displayed a willingness to pick up and run with that ChiCom propaganda. Then in that massive governmental bureaucracy, there is an entrenched large group of career or lifetime unelected bureaucrats who make no qualms about using crises to advance their own agenda. Those are generally the people surrounding the few top elected officials advising the VP & POTUS what they should do lest millions of people die. Put all of these ingredients together and this is one delicate and difficult needle to thread.
Most people seem to agree that a big recession is a given. Could something this big turn into a depression? I'm not saying this will turn into a massive collapse of our economy and country. I am saying that if this isn't handled just right, a total collapse could happen. Folks, I know I'm doing some praying during this time, and I would strongly encourage others to pray.
Civil society is a thin vaneer. Let things get bad enough for even a week or two, and I'm afraid that thin vaneer will start fall away. In my estimation, our civilized society will hold together for a few weeks of this massive shutdown. I seriously doubt our peaceful civilized society will hold together for six months or even longer of a massive shutdown with all non-essential people virtually under house arrest.
The upside is that I think the American people can handle with little to no problem returning to work & school with serious strong guidelines and even rules to handle this public health crisis. Examples to which I refer are to the effect of 2 week home quarantine if you get sick. Closing individual or local businesses & schools if the virus starts to hit it. Continue to postpone all large gatherings and events like sports and concerts. Within a few months, gradually return some sports for TV only.
You get the idea. I think the American people can handle those sort of restrictions and limitations for months. I'm trying to say here that there is a big difference between an economy struggling with a recession because of the virus vs a collapsed economy and Great Depression. I pray those at the top of the government make the wise, good, and right decisions.
Speaking of hindsight, I've been compiling that list. A few of them have been obvious for years and irritated me for a long time.
It seems much of America is starting to learn of the perils of putting needed modes of production and supply lines with Communist China. Not only is it an economic issue it's a national security issue. America is dependent on China for the manufacture of many of our medications. Unsurprisingly, they have recently threatened to cut off medications to our country.
Just in Time Inventory is great for when everything is great, but it is a potential national crisis when disaster strikes. Look no further than grocery stores not able to keep food on the shelves.
It is a shame America has not already invested $40 or 50 Billion more over the years for better and larger strategic critical supplies. Because of a lack of available hospital beds and key items such as ventilators, America just lost Trillions in our economy over the last weeks. Penny wise pound foolish. If we had good ready to go mobile hospitals and medical equipment, perhaps the current shutdown and social distancing wouldn't be as severe to flatten the curve of virus spread. The experts have been clear that this is exactly the reason for the current shutdown. The risk of loss of life is greater because the hospitals simply can't meet the demand for care namely icu beds and ventilators.
I think about all the small hospitals that have closed over the past 20 years. I think about research funding drying up. When I got into research, NIH was funding >12% grants in my section and almost 20% for new investigators. The line was down to ~2% a few years back. Trump had proposed cutting even more NIH funding for research, that now is magically back in the budget after all this.
My father-n-law sent me an article about the Army holding $100 million in funding from research labs, theoretically to go to wall building.
South Korea and the US had their first KNOWN case of this virus in Jan 20. How were they able to ramp up testing so much faster than us?
We have crippled our preparedness over time, forgetting the lessons the past. Now when we finally need it, we are reacting in real time.
I get it, if we don’t do something this thing could theoretically infect and kill thousands of Americans. I just wish we would have been more prepared.
Trump just announced that tax day has been moved from 4/15 to 7/15
You are right. If there is any upside to this lack of preparedness, America has in it's history a bad habit of not being prepared. Nevertheless, America would ramp up quickly to deal with the problem. Both World Wars stand out as examples. Still, at some point this nation needs to learn to be more responsible and prepared so that our nation isn't in a desperate state fighting to bring needed materials online before our nation falls.
Funding should be there for critical research particularly health related research. While the political battles are well documented about our border, one of the main reasons I continue to support securing the border is to prevent dangerous infectious diseases from waltzing in over an open border. To me, public health is one of the main reasons to have full control over who and when others enter our country.
I know it's because of my age now, but I don't let my truck's gas tank get much below half tank. When I hit half tank, I'm heading to a gas station. That way it is like always having a half tank of gas in reserve for a rainy day. Still none goes to waste as I use it and replace it so to speak. Admittedly, when I was a young man I was doing good to throw $10 of gas in there when I was on empty. Hopefully, those in national leadership can behave more like the older mature more responsible adults who understand the wisdom and value of being prepared. It's not wise for senior national leaders to run our country like less experienced and less responsible young adults that are having to scrape up or bum $10 just to put some gas in the empty tank.
Speaking of signs of the apocalypse. Didn't think I'd be seeing a postponed tax day in my lifetime.
I have heard that payroll taxes might be suspended for the rest of the year and the IRS shut down in a few years.
Folks, I don't trust this Fauci cat any further than I could throw him.
I don't have a good feeling about keeping the economy shut down much more than another couple of weeks. Some people are freaking over the Fauci comments from earlier this week when he said no deaths and no new cases before the nation can start to return to functioning. Now I thought his comments were ambiguous. Regardless, the comments didn't exactly instill confidence for improvements any time soon. I do have to admit that I wonder if Fauci didn't have a little Freudian slip.
Whatever the case, the American people are going to have to start to speak up before the damage to the nation becomes irreversible.
Dead people can't talk.
Based on my work, I have met Fauci, albeit it was just a handshake after a seminar. He is literally one of the 5-10 smartest people I have ever met.
The problem is balancing 2 competing, but equally important issues. There is the public health issue and the economic. Unfortunately, the 2 don’t always go hand in hand. Fauci’s role is to advise solely from a public health perspective based on infectious disease data. Others have to talk economics and then Trump has to sort out policy from these recommendations. From a fully public health perspective, we probably should have been locked down in homes for a month back in February, but that doesn’t account for economics at all.
For one of the few times in my life, I truly feel bad for the person who is sitting in the Oval Office. Love Trump or hate him, he is facing a decision/policy crisis that few other presidents ever faced. Reading a bio on Lincoln and decisions he faced during the civil war so parallel to this. I am in no way saying Trump is Lincoln, but size of every decision in life cost and every economic decision will ripple for years. And the love/hatred Lincoln faced in his time is similar to Trump. Truly a once in a generation crisis.
I think you are right about the weighty decisions and unenviable position of having to make big decisions.
I don't doubt that the Fauci guy is highly intelligent. I still don't trust him any further than I could throw him. It's his possible intentions, biases, or social/political agenda that troubles me. It's his high level of intelligence that further concerns me.
My opinion for what it is worth is I get real suspicious about someone when all sides in that corrupt sewer of DC extol the virtues of a particular person. Usually that is when the corrupt establishment is really getting ready to screw the American people over.
Including the roughly 80,000 young Americans that die each year from opiate overdoses. The opiates mostly originating in China and trafficked into the US by the Mexican cartels. They can't speak, and I don't see our country shutting down over those 80,000 yearly deaths.
I ran across this and will put it here as food for thought
RV/INTELLIGENCE ALERT - April 2, 2020
(Disclaimer: The following is an overview of the current situation of the world based on intelligence received from several sources which may or may not be accurate or truthful.)
Rumors suggests that hospital ships Comfort and Mercy are being covertly used to care for Human Trafficking rescuees.
If true, the arrival of Comfort and Mercy is just on time with the National Child Abuse Prevention Month (April) declared by President Trump in 2017.
It is a possibility that the Earth Alliance has begun mass rescue operations for human trafficking victims while the public stays indoors during the quarantine.
Human trafficking is one of the Deep State Cabal's sources of income.
Sources are claiming that there will soon be a nationwide shutdown of phone and internet which may indicate the beginning of mass arrests.
Meanwhile, censorship is being removed from all Social Media platforms prior to the shutdown.
The Emergency Broadcast System will remain active during this shutdown.
The mass arrests are expected to last for 3 days and updates will be given via the Emergency Broadcast System.
Sources are also claiming that the CV pandemic will be used to bring forth an global economic reset.
The transition has begun.
Once the transition is over, a New Financial System is expected to be in place and with the New Financial System in place -- the long-awaited currency redemption event will begin.
Although there is some discussion about the virus on the main forum, I try to direct more of my political thoughts on the matter over here in this forum.
I've been doing some more reading and listening on Dr Fauci. I am running across a lot that's reinforcing the idea that I don't trust him any further than I could throw him. The more I learn about him further places his earlier comments this week in a highly suspect light. I thought that learning more would clear up what seemed ambiguous at the time. Unfortunately, more context is clearing up his comments in a most unflattering light.
Additionally, I've tried to make it a point to watch the White House virus briefings this week. I've come to believe that Dr Fauci is enjoying those briefings a little too much. Then I thought, why not? He, right now, is at the apex of his career. Most career minded people would love to be the chief national expert on a critical matter facing the country. He is is getting to regularly brief the national media from the White House. Most of the people in the nation are sequestered in their homes at his direction. What power! So, he now has a captive audience to which the entire DC establishment, media, and corps are heralding him as the greatest, smartest, best guy to lead us through this crisis. Just for starters, that is too much power for any one man especially an unelected man. It's not helping that he is openly admitting that he is for locking everyone down easily for months until the virus is eradicated as in no deaths and no new cases. Just considering these points is enough to tell me that we have a big problem in addition to a virus.