B10 supports 1 time transfer rule

Discussion in 'The Raider Roundup' started by RaiderDawg78, Jan 31, 2020.

  1. RaiderDawg78

    RaiderDawg78 All American
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    I know many disagree with me on other transfer rules: I’m in favor of players being able to transfer a/o penalty if your coach leaves or you graduate, and I’m ok with the transfer portal with sitting out a year in other cases.


    That said, I am absolutely against a no penalty transfer and immediate eligibility in any sport that this supports. G5 schools will become minor leagues for P5 schools whose fans will buy player merchandise, so the transfer can immediately get paid.

    article here
     
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  2. Raiders_55

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    Agree 100%.

    Speaking of transfers, I firmly believe MTSU (both Football and Basketball) need to start taking advantage of transfers (both Grad and Undergrad).

    I look at a school like Nevada-Reno, which became dominate in BB a few years ago, with a roster made chiefly of Transfers. Musselman remade that program in such a short period, relying heavily on Transfers. I would really like to see more and more Transfers coming to MTSU.
     
  3. mtfblue

    mtfblue All Conference
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    well if that's the case, all sports need to sit out or everyone gets the 1 time transfer
     
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  4. RaiderDawg78

    RaiderDawg78 All American
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    ACC announced they support this rule change as well.

    let the big schools start poaching from the G5 schools in all sports as they see fit.
     
  5. BlueAlpha

    BlueAlpha Blue Raider
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    Well then, maybe someone here can make a non-emotional case for why coaches don’t have to sit out a year, but players do. The guys here in ATL I run around with, who all went to so called smaller schools, but support UGA, LSU, Colorado, to name a few, strongly believe kids should sit out. A college coach, depending upon health and how good he is, get 40-50 years to ply their trade. College kids get 5 years to play 4.
    Yet, any coach, whether a HC, or position, is basically free to move whenever he can strike a better deal. An unintended consequence of the early signing date is 7 HC’s have changed schools. To the best of my knowledge, none of them have to sit out a year. Heck, Mel Tucker left Colorado AFTER signing date, and he’s already hard at work at Michigan St. Plus, they doubled his salary.
    My ATL friends don’t have a reply to this. Maybe someone here can explain why it’s different. Full disclosure, this whole subject makes my BP go off the charts. The hypocrisy is hard to fathom.
    I am not clear on how, or why, the transfer portal came into being. I do know King Saban & Emperor Smart decided what schools an athlete of theirs could transfer to. Certainly NOT within conference, or if the school was on the schedule the next 3-4 years. Yet, I could rattle off assistant after assistant who has moved within the SEC, usually for either more $$$, or a longer contract.
    The transfer portal has taken that power away from these HC’s. Rightfully so. HC’s were wrongly abusing their powers over kids who had 4 years to play. But it’s certainly ok for grown men to move job to job every year, with no consequence.
    Lastly, are we to believe that if there was no sitting out a year, schools from the SEC/ACC are gonna come sniffing around athletes at schools like MT, etc? In the infamous words of John McEnroe, “you cannot be serious”.
     
  6. JohnDavidBlue

    JohnDavidBlue All American
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    As long as there is disparity between the haves(p5) and have nots(g5), I will always vote in some way to protect what little we have.

    From my perspective, everyone should know what they are signing up for when committing.
     
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  7. RaiderDawg78

    RaiderDawg78 All American
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    I think kids should be able to transfer if their coach leaves. The NCAA already changed the rule that allows incoming students out of their LOI if the coach leaves - basically schools no longer can hold students up like so many wanted Massaro to do when CKD left.

    The NCAA already allows graduate transfer with no penalty and allows kids to enter the transfer portal, which can’t be blocked.

    The big change here would be a student could transfer w/o penalty and and play immediately in any circumstance.

    Currently if you transfer like this, you have to sit out a year in the 5 major sports. You don’t necessarily lose a year of eligibility.

    I think immediate transfer eligibility opens some potentially problematic doors in the money sports that doesn’t occur in the other sports

    And yes, I absolutely think P5 schools will come after stars at G5 schools in plug/play options given the opportunity. I would use the transfer portal to get rid of recruits who didn’t pan out and I would steal as much talent from others as I could.
     
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  8. crposton

    crposton True Blue
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    Coaches cannot just come and go as they please. They negotiate their contracts with options of having to buy it out if they leave before the end of the contract or if they are fired without cause they can recoup that money. When a coach leaves early and the school they are going to pays to buy them out they are fulfilling the requirements of that contract. When a player signs a scholarship (contract) they are agreeing to the rules of that contract. If the rules state they have to sit out if they transfer then they have to sit out. They are agreeing to the rules when they accept the scholarship. I don't necessarily agree with all the rules, but the argument coaches get to leave when they want is wrong. They have to fulfill the terms of the contract in one way or another.
     
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  9. JohnDavidBlue

    JohnDavidBlue All American
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    If coaches = players, might as well extend eligibility beyond 4 years.
     
  10. MT01

    MT01 True Blue
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    Well, the simplest answer is that the coach is an employee, and the student is well as student.

    If you want to have a debate about the legitimacy of amateurism vs professionalism fine have that, but if you think that head coaches at privileged schools aren't now going to take advantage of kids at lower resourced schools under these proposals you're kidding yourself.

    The rule was put into place - at least initially - to protect the student athletes from this exact type of poaching/illegal recruiting and help them in their academic pursuits. Have you ever transferred colleges before and know what it's like to have your credits go into the dump? If you do it strictly for athletics purposes you put at risk your academic pursuits. If you change schools to pursue a different academic goals then that's one thing.

    The problem isn't the rule. The problem is Presidents and academic leaders allowed greed to enter into their decision for conference alignment, TV, and other forms of posturing. These people hide behind "academics" but really only care about their power - which is largely attained through revenue generated through cartel like means - which aims to prevent the ascension of other institutions.
     
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  11. RaiderDawg78

    RaiderDawg78 All American
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    This is what I am worried about. With this rule, if I was a kid, I would put my name in the transfer portal every year unless I just loved my current situation. Why not? If I’m in the portal, I can talk to any coach and leave for a better opportunity.

    I’m afraid G5 schools will become large jucos for P5 schools with this rule. MT develops a kid for 2/3 years to get poached by a contender.
     
  12. MTFNBY5

    MTFNBY5 Hall of Famer
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    Tell me one NCAA rule change, one change in sports media, or one change in society in general that has benefited or at least not hurt mid-major (or less) schools in the last 25 years. You can't.

    It is what it is and unless our country changes and demands more justice and fairness in all facets of society it will get worse.
     
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  13. mtfblue

    mtfblue All Conference
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    If you put your name in the portal, the school doesn't have to honor your ship if you don't leave. The 1 time transfer is not a bad thing either. As with basketball, you wouldn't have what you have at MT these past 2 years. You would've have had immediate help. The football part would make all lower level kids a target. Those kids that are late bloomers, get a chance to showcase what they can do at a higher level. Those kids that are bust want be just taking space up on the roster and eating all the groceries, they will be booted to give that other kid a chance. Scholarship numbers will remain the same, that's the biggest issue, will they raise the scholarship numbers?
     
  14. RaiderDawg78

    RaiderDawg78 All American
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    If I were kids, I would encourage everyone on the team to put their names in every year. Power in numbers.

    I think you’re right, P5 players that never play will be sent to G5 and quality G5 players that develop late will end up finishing at P5 schools.

    P5 conferences would not be for this idea unless it helps them.
     
  15. MTFNBY5

    MTFNBY5 Hall of Famer
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    To those of you who support this move let me ask you if the name Jeremy Pruitt means anything to you? Do you honestly believe that Reed Blankenship would be a rising Sr. at MT if this rule was presently in effect? Do you believe Giddy Potts would have played 4 years as a Blue Raider?
    And as for the "if it fair for the goose (coach) it's fair for the gander (student-athlete)" crowd if you can't see the difference that's on you.
    I hate to repeat myself from previous posts but the 1st time a men's BkB (by far my favorite sport) player transfers "up" will be the last time the athletic program gets one red cent from me. I felt comfortable and developed a love for MT from the first time I set foot on campus; I have no respect for a system which doesn't encourage student/athletes to do the same.
     
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  16. kingaling42

    kingaling42 Blue Raider Fan
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    Even if the coaches/program wanted to stop it from happening- how could the programs/coaches actually stop any kid from transferring? I don't like it either but you cannot stop it and the trends are ever-increasing even with the current rules in place lower program studs are getting re-recruited..

    Unlike coaching contracts- a players scholarship is renewed annually- they don't get a 4/5 year promise- it's all in good faith.. could be possible deterrent in not renewing the kids scholarship if they enter the portal but that would likely hurt the program with recruiting HS kids more than help deter transfers..

    Like the one/dones at the P5 programs if you're a mid-major or lower you almost have to fully embrace it going forward and be super active in recruiting those in the portal that are dropping down- this simply is going to open things up and make roster management all the more difficult for programs like MT..
     
  17. crposton

    crposton True Blue
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    Every single player can transfer up or down right now. I do not think sitting a year has as big of an impact on the decision as we think. I could be wrong, but Giddy could have transferred to Auburn and did not. Was the only reason he did not because he would have to sit a year? I doubt it.
     
  18. mtfblue

    mtfblue All Conference
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  19. MTLynn

    MTLynn Hall of Famer
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    This would hurt bottom feeder power 5 conference teams too...

    Rather than see the top power teams get more power, I'd rather see all sports go non-scholarship or maybe like baseball.

    The nfl and nba need a minor league system.
     
  20. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    Disaster idea. It's a shame that some people can't just ever leave $hit alone. College athletics have been great going on 50 years now........but we just gotta make major changes and screw it all up, right?

    I can see it already. The first time Stockstill yells at Jimmy and he doesn't like it he's gonna take his ball and go transfer like a baby. Or when Nick takes so and so out of the starting line up he's gonna grab his ball and go elsewhere.

    We are effectively handicapping our coaches and their ability to turn these boys into men and leaders.

    Just more pussification from this flat out ever-increasing LUNATIC society. Everyone supporting this can honestly F right off.
     
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  21. BlueAlpha

    BlueAlpha Blue Raider
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    That might be true for the HC. Though other than Campbell at Iowa ST, most of the other “ leave early $$$ penalties” are nominal. Heck, Kiffin had 8 years left on his contract at FAU, he left for Ole Miss and didn’t have to sit out. Certainly nothing in Leach’s or Tucker’s contracts stopped them from leaving for MS St and Michigan St. Without giving a lot of thought I could name 7-8 assistant coaches who left before their contract at “pick a school” was over and moved to another SEC school. Besides, the scholarships are annual.
     
  22. BlueAlpha

    BlueAlpha Blue Raider
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    It’s still hard to fathom for me to believe that SEC/ACC schools with massive recruiting budgets are all of a sudden gonna think there is gold in schools like MT or UAB. The more likely outcome will benefit schools like ours. Right now a lot of kids, seeing PT blocked in the SEC, transfer to HBCU or the OVC. As they do NOT have to sit out. In the future, they can transfer to Conf USA and not have to sit out. Still bowl eligible, play some big time programs, and not have to bus to most games.
     
  23. BlueAlpha

    BlueAlpha Blue Raider
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    Would guess the 5 years to play 4 was due to most kids taking 5 years or so to graduate. Seems reasonable. Of course, there are professional students who have no timeline. To extend indefinitely makes zero sense. Not sure many schools want kids on scholarship 7-8 years.
     
  24. BlueAlpha

    BlueAlpha Blue Raider
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    The ACC came out today also in favor of a one time transfer rule. There are some pretty well articulated articles out today that explain in good detail why this should, and will, be adopted this Spring. The coaches enjoy free agency their entire career. Maybe at times with some nominal buyout. Not sure what Mullens was when he jumped from MS St. to Florida. Certainly didn’t give him any pause in going to the Gators. And he didn’t have to sit out a year. James Coley was the OC at UGA. After the season his role was reassigned to something different. He is now at Texas A & M. Without sitting out, I don’t recall any angst about that. Why is it different with players?
     
  25. RaiderDawg78

    RaiderDawg78 All American
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    This rule will give more options to students, but it will hurt G5 schools.

    The MSU side of me likes it. Mike Leach has already poached a few graduate transfers, I expect him to steal some non-graduate transfers now. I think it will be fun to steal a Richie James or Ty Lee type player from a G5 school given the chance.

    The MT side of me see this hurting G5 schools.
     
  26. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    Of course its gonna hurt schools like us. The cream rises to the top. Any time a school like MT has any type of talent, the P5's will be courting that talent through back channels all day and night long.

    I feel this will hurt basketball much more than football, especially with our current head basketball coach who literally has a reputation of finding diamonds in the rough. The Power 5's will be watching the talent we have here at MT like hawks. Any time we get a CUSA POY type of dude, they will all come a calling and it's very likely that kid leaves as he can do so without penalty. Bravo!

    This is such a terrible idea and I can't fathom supporting it. You think all these Power 5 commissioners are going to be in favor of something that hurts their teams? This is going to benefit them and benefit them big.



    The G5's are about to officially become big business junior colleges.

    And lastly, I'm about done with college athletics. My whole reason for ever falling in love with college sports was the amateurism and purity associated with it. Now they want to pay players like they are professionals (in addition to a full ride scholarship) and essentially green light free agentism.

    No thanks.
     
    26 sWiley, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
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  27. AustinLewis

    AustinLewis Hall of Famer
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    Some good arguments against this rule have been made. Going to play devil's advocate for a second :

    1) While MT may lose a Richie James or Ty Lee, they'd have the opportunity to pick up a I'Tavius Mathers type - without having to sit out a year. This rule change has a chance to create a "free agency" in college athletics.

    2) For better or worse, coaches jump from a G5 to a P5 school frequently, but no one seems to care. How is this rule change any different?
     
  28. FranklinRaider315

    FranklinRaider315 All American
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    Austin, the only reason Mathers landed at MT was because of his hometown connection to Murfreesboro and the Blackman HS family.

    He had fallen to 3rd team RB at Ole Miss behind Jaylen Walton from Memphis Ridgeway and Jordan Wilkins from Memphis / St. Benedict.

    He is an anomaly. No outside guy leaving a P5 school is gonna take a look at our last several Homecoming / Senior Day crowds and transfer to MT. I’m still waiting to hear the back story on the guy from West Virginia.
     
    28 FranklinRaider315, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  29. crposton

    crposton True Blue
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    Coaches are not athletes. Comparing the two is dumb. If athletes do not want to play under the current rules then they do not have to. I am for not making players sit out a year for transferring. Especially since the coach can decide to not renew a scholarship of a player. I just think saying “but coaches get to” is not a good argument.
     
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  30. crposton

    crposton True Blue
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    I also think there will be more transfers going from P5 to G5 than the other way around.
     
  31. mtfblue

    mtfblue All Conference
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    This rule will not hurt the G5 or FCS, this is really going to kill JUCO, Post Grad and High School recruiting. Those portal kids will get 1st crack at a scholarship, then high school. The JUCO and Post Grad kids will feel it the most. Most of the better JUCO kids were transfers that didn't want to sit out and now they don't.
     
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  32. AustinLewis

    AustinLewis Hall of Famer
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    I get Mathers' hometown connection was likely the reason he ended up at MT, but that's not the point. Mathers is one of a handful of ex-4 star prospects that have transferred to MT during the last 10 years or so.

    IMO, guys like Mathers - guys who have fallen down the depth chart at P5 schools - may look to transfer if they don't have to sit out a year.
     
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  33. RaiderDawg78

    RaiderDawg78 All American
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    I don’t think this rule changes much for people transferring from P5 to G5. People looking for playing time will continue to look for playing time.

    My other school is getting a few graduate transfers that start at other schools every year. This rule will allow them to poach more starters earlier.

    I look for them to have a roster of ~10 players a year that played a lot somewhere while they clear the roster of players buried on the depth chart.

    That’s really my fear of this rule.

    if I was a star player at a G5 school, I would put my name in the portal every year to see what options are out there, just to see if I could find a better position for myself. And I would encourage everyone on the team to do the same. The rule is better opportunities for the kids, but it doesn’t help G5 schools.
     
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  34. MTLynn

    MTLynn Hall of Famer
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    If a player is happy then they probably won't transfer.

    Most players want to start and that will likely be the motivation with the majority of transfers

    MT football has had two players transfer to bammer - jeremy pruitt and darren mustin.

    Those ingrates transferred because bammer is their favorite team and playing time didn't really matter. With a rule change, this type of transfer will become more common.
     
    34 MTLynn, Feb 20, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
  35. MTLynn

    MTLynn Hall of Famer
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    I tend to think most starters will not transfer unless they are unhappy.

    A starter at one school may not start at another and starters have a better shot at improving their game and ultimately going pro.
     
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  36. BlueAlpha

    BlueAlpha Blue Raider
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    My point was, nobody gets their pants in a wad over an assistant coach leaving before his 1,2, or 3 year contract is up. He leaves for a perceived better opportunity or $$$. And gets to keep making a living as long as he brings value. Maybe over 40-50 years. The HC gets dinged a nominal buyout and moves on.
    I never understood why an 18-19 year old kid had to sit out a year if he/she had a change of heart. When their eligibility is only 5 years. Likely a moot point, appears the train is moving down a new track.
     
  37. MT01

    MT01 True Blue
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    The answer has already been given. The main reason was to prevent exactly what’s going to happen under this new proposal. Discourage coaches from recruiting kids who are already on a roster. Protects them from bad actors and their academic interests.
     
  38. BlueAlpha

    BlueAlpha Blue Raider
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    That might be partially true. The sit out a year rule applies to 5 sports: football, both basketballs, baseball, & hockey. I don’t know how many total sports there are, both men & women, but it has to be more than 20.
    Under your theory, the NCAA only cares about the welfare of athletes playing those sports and not the others.
    We lost a golf coach 2 years ago to UT and he took 2-3 kids with him. They did NOT have to sit out.
     
  39. sWiley

    sWiley All American
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    Yeah? Imagine how many players Kermit could/would have taken to Ole Miss with him. Probably Antonio Green and Antwain Johnson, if not more. Obviously, in hindsight Green is not very good and Tae Tae is just playing average at Buffalo, but there was major hype around the 2 prior to Nick arriving.

    Everyone wants to talk about football and use football examples here but the real sport that is gonna get hammered is basketball. It's gonna be the wild wild west, BIG TIME. You are going to see TONS of successful G5 kids going to P5 schools and P5 rejects transferring back down to G5. It's already happening WITH the 1 year penalty. Imagine how bad it's gonna be if no penalty. This major shift will ensure that the P5 not only gets their pick of the litter when signing kids out of high school and JUCOs, but they will also be able to literally pick and poach players from other G5 programs that they deem fit for their programs. And guess which G5 programs will be picked, poached, and ruined the most? Those at the top of the food chain with the best players (where we aspire to be). Ultimately, this will further ensure that the best college basketball talents end up on a P5 roster with as few as roadblocks as possible. As I said previously, schools like MT will essentially become super junior colleges for the Power 5 conferences.

    Those of you supporting this better think long and hard about this.....There is no way, on any planet in any dimension, this benefits a school like Middle Tennessee. And I cannot for the life of me understand how any of you might think it does benefit a G5 like MT? Please, for the love of god, explain........

    Yall are crazy. This is gonna destroy G5 basketball and turn college athletics into a free agent market. Then we'll see these kids doing commercials for their "likeness", driving BMW's to class, and a select few stacking up piles of cash greater than what their own head coach makes.... This is not hyperbole, either. All these things and more are going to happen if we remove the amateurism and tradition from major college sports.

    I have no interest in supporting or watching the minor leagues which is exactly what "college athletics" will become with these proposed and likely impending changes. If I wanted to watch professional sports I would watch them already. Not what I'm looking for in college athletics. No thanks.
     
    39 sWiley, Feb 21, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
  40. MTTim

    MTTim True Blue
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    Wiley is right. This is not good for the G5 and MT. It is all driven by greed.
     

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