UNIVERSITY NEWS Another Q and A session with Lee De Leon
- Thread starter Matt Dossett
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First off, thanks for the staff and Lee for doing this each month.
I'm not crazy about the whole "MTSU consistently" thing. I get the reasoning behind it. It is who we are and there is absolutely a need for consistent branding. Mixed emotions.
Before I chose MT, I was hellbent on Belmont (who consistently bad mouthed us by the way) and my parents finally said they couldn't afford it. Let's look at MTSU. One visit and I fell in love. But part of my rationale in not wanting to come was the "state". My mom is from the Tri-Cities so I thought of small time ETSU. Local school here, Bluefield State College, made me think of MT State as being small. I don't think that now. LSU, Michigan State, Kansas State. I wasn't obsessed with college football outside of WVU and the Big East till I went to college. And now Bluefield State is a University with new dorms, a re-started football program, etc.
I used to hate the whole four letter acronym. But again, SDSU, SJSU, NMSU.
I'm of the mindset we should be MT or Middle. Keep the State University and don't change the name. I don't care. (It should be changed but it won't so here we are). But focus on the Middle Tennessee. I've said it before, we are the only school with middle. Use that. Just be known as Middle.
I've seen some official athletics graphics recently on Twitter etc use the 80s MTSU logo. Watch them rebrand and use the four letters again and get rid of the block MT. I will be PISSED if they do that. And no not just because of my tattoo.
Branding does need to be consistent but I don't think MTSU is the way to go.
I'm not crazy about the whole "MTSU consistently" thing. I get the reasoning behind it. It is who we are and there is absolutely a need for consistent branding. Mixed emotions.
Before I chose MT, I was hellbent on Belmont (who consistently bad mouthed us by the way) and my parents finally said they couldn't afford it. Let's look at MTSU. One visit and I fell in love. But part of my rationale in not wanting to come was the "state". My mom is from the Tri-Cities so I thought of small time ETSU. Local school here, Bluefield State College, made me think of MT State as being small. I don't think that now. LSU, Michigan State, Kansas State. I wasn't obsessed with college football outside of WVU and the Big East till I went to college. And now Bluefield State is a University with new dorms, a re-started football program, etc.
I used to hate the whole four letter acronym. But again, SDSU, SJSU, NMSU.
I'm of the mindset we should be MT or Middle. Keep the State University and don't change the name. I don't care. (It should be changed but it won't so here we are). But focus on the Middle Tennessee. I've said it before, we are the only school with middle. Use that. Just be known as Middle.
I've seen some official athletics graphics recently on Twitter etc use the 80s MTSU logo. Watch them rebrand and use the four letters again and get rid of the block MT. I will be PISSED if they do that. And no not just because of my tattoo.
Branding does need to be consistent but I don't think MTSU is the way to go.
Actually branding does need to be consistent and there is a ton of research out there that explains that.
The comparison to these other land grand state institutions are really poor and lazy analogies. Not saying to you Mountaineer. Just that I heard that a lot in the past when I was working on this issue.
So, first and foremost you can't compare our school and situation to land grand institutions, because we are not one and therefore do not have the benefits that come with being one - most notably two centuries worth of brand identify and oh yeah....the resources, funding, money. etc.
LSU is a throw away, because they brand one way. Just look at how you wrote it yourself. LSU. They don't even use Louisiana State in anything. And you bought into it without even knowing, because it has been "branded' into your cerebrum. You wrote out the other school names in that sentence but not "Lousiana State". Ironically, your post actually shows just how important consistent branding is. How 'bout that!
State isn't the problem. Tennessee St (if we had that would be fine), it's the directional nomenclature and state at the same time in our name. Our name is more akin to Middle Georgia State University or Central Connecticut State University than LSU, Michigan State, etc. Enough said. Probably knowing absolutely nothing about those two schools I just referenced with direction and state, how does your brain associate the vitality and perception of those schools?
As for the others you mentioned, they all have two-word cities or states in their names. San Diego is a well known major US city. San Jose is well know US city. New Mexico is a state. "Middle" may actually be the bigger detriment than anything else. Directional schools are simply perceived poorer, worser, etc., than other schools. And that stereotype is largely true. But less capable also comes to mind. Unfortunately, we probably can't do anything about that, but we could at least make our branding consistent and pick one.
Frankly, if we're never going to change the name MTSU is easier to brand than Middle Tennessee. Though my research leads me to believe dropping State and being the U of MT would have more significant and longer lasting benefits, if we used MTSU like LSU does and never, ever again call ourselves Middle Tennessee State that also could work. But again, I believe the name change would work better. Therefore, that's my preference. I'm just not convinced it's going to happen. Interestingly Western is trying to do this by calling themselves nothing but WKU thought it's not working well. wku doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. One way or the other, we need consolidate our branding and fix it, because right now it's broken and that's just one of many problems on campus right now. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that we have a broken brand given we're led by broken leadership.
The comparison to these other land grand state institutions are really poor and lazy analogies. Not saying to you Mountaineer. Just that I heard that a lot in the past when I was working on this issue.
So, first and foremost you can't compare our school and situation to land grand institutions, because we are not one and therefore do not have the benefits that come with being one - most notably two centuries worth of brand identify and oh yeah....the resources, funding, money. etc.
LSU is a throw away, because they brand one way. Just look at how you wrote it yourself. LSU. They don't even use Louisiana State in anything. And you bought into it without even knowing, because it has been "branded' into your cerebrum. You wrote out the other school names in that sentence but not "Lousiana State". Ironically, your post actually shows just how important consistent branding is. How 'bout that!
State isn't the problem. Tennessee St (if we had that would be fine), it's the directional nomenclature and state at the same time in our name. Our name is more akin to Middle Georgia State University or Central Connecticut State University than LSU, Michigan State, etc. Enough said. Probably knowing absolutely nothing about those two schools I just referenced with direction and state, how does your brain associate the vitality and perception of those schools?
As for the others you mentioned, they all have two-word cities or states in their names. San Diego is a well known major US city. San Jose is well know US city. New Mexico is a state. "Middle" may actually be the bigger detriment than anything else. Directional schools are simply perceived poorer, worser, etc., than other schools. And that stereotype is largely true. But less capable also comes to mind. Unfortunately, we probably can't do anything about that, but we could at least make our branding consistent and pick one.
Frankly, if we're never going to change the name MTSU is easier to brand than Middle Tennessee. Though my research leads me to believe dropping State and being the U of MT would have more significant and longer lasting benefits, if we used MTSU like LSU does and never, ever again call ourselves Middle Tennessee State that also could work. But again, I believe the name change would work better. Therefore, that's my preference. I'm just not convinced it's going to happen. Interestingly Western is trying to do this by calling themselves nothing but WKU thought it's not working well. wku doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. One way or the other, we need consolidate our branding and fix it, because right now it's broken and that's just one of many problems on campus right now. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that we have a broken brand given we're led by broken leadership.
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All valid points MT01. And no offense taken as I obviously fell in to the trap the average person does. I never considered land grant being part of it. An FBS university is an FBS university. I guess also because I don't view directional as meaning anything bad, but I'm also biased knowing how Tennessee is divided geographically. Never considered two name cities like San Diego either, probably because I never call them San Diego, just as you said, I don't call LSU Louisiana State.
Like I said, mixed emotions on it. I want to do whatever will grow and make us a nationally known brand. We could win multiple conf champs in a row and make the new playoffs and we still wouldn't be able to fully capitalize on the exposure if we don't have consistent branding.
Example athletics and academics. Branding can be different, but still needs to be consistent. Virginia Tech has different logos for athletics and academics, but both are VT, just different fonts. And there is another example. No one calls them by their long mouthful of a name.
Branding direction isn't an easy question, but it is one that needs answered to grow.
Like I said, mixed emotions on it. I want to do whatever will grow and make us a nationally known brand. We could win multiple conf champs in a row and make the new playoffs and we still wouldn't be able to fully capitalize on the exposure if we don't have consistent branding.
Example athletics and academics. Branding can be different, but still needs to be consistent. Virginia Tech has different logos for athletics and academics, but both are VT, just different fonts. And there is another example. No one calls them by their long mouthful of a name.
Branding direction isn't an easy question, but it is one that needs answered to grow.
To MT01 & Mountaineer I like your discussion. Like you & many others I would love to see the change to UMT. University of Middle Tennessee for branding & growth has an excellent presentation. The elephant in the room is of course Dr McPhee who has his own preference for university branding, & that brand is "MTSU". My question is, & this is not to be toxic at all. How do we overcome this huge obstruction to an excellent idea for university growth & branding?
Nothing is going to get done until McPhee is gone. Retired or carried out of Cope feet first. My view has been for a long time he has no desire for doing anything that is best for the interests of the university. Is it something for his ego or to piss off people who don't agree with him. Well that's different.
At this point I hope to outlive the bastard, so I have the chance to piss on his grave...
Call it a conspiracy theory if you want, but there is a large part of me that feels he was hired to maintain the status quo so to speak. To not rock the boat. To help the university not falter of course, but also not grow it to become a huge power academically with regards to research and professional schools, and athletically with regards to a national power to say beat UT in a NY6 bowl game like a Boise would have years ago. In other words to not step on the toes of another TBR school.
One would've thought getting our own board would change that, but I think that was just given to appease the masses, as was shown with the law school fiasco. We have zero political clout and no one willing to fight for it.
I guarantee James Walker is looking down none too pleased.
You brought up a very progressive minded university president. If I remember correctly he left MT around 2000 to take over a larger university system before passing away. It makes one wonder where would our university accomplishments be at academically & athletically if we could have had him another 10-15 years.
I figure that when stooge mcphee is gone, the state will just slide the tsu-Nashville president over to Murfreesboro and declare that all undergraduate courses are held in Murfreesboro, and all graduate programs are held in Nashville.
Interesting premise. Using your theory, instead of University of Middle Tennessee could you see us becoming TSU-Murfreesboro somewhere down the road? With bureaucracy as it is, I've learned to say never say never
I've stated on this board a few times over the years that Dr Walker's leadership is one of the main factors in inspiring me to stay at MT and not transfer to a school east of here. It has sickened me to see what McPhee has done to Dr Walker's vision. When I'm over on campus for my freshman daughter, all the good-looking buildings and growth in the modern era I see as a realization of Dr Walker's leadership and vision. In my opinion, McPhee just inherited it and has pissed away all of that momentum that could have led to even more phenomenal growth and success for the university.
I, too, theorize that McPhee was actually brought in to slow the roll, so to speak. It seems to me that McPhee was brought in to not let MT continue to grow to keep MT from becoming more of a disruption or problem for UT. A move to put MT back in its' place with the other TBR schools in the state.
I have also wondered more than a few times over the years if Dr Walker didn't bail on MT-Tennessee due to him being painfully aware of the state political system intentions to put MT back in line. MT was going gangbusters at that time. If I remember correctly, he had passed on a lot of other opportunities up to that point, and all of this was shortly after the State torpedoed the university name change to UMT. It seemed a clear sign or symbol of things to come for MT.
